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[Lee Buckalew]

I've listened to plenty of tracks through the system. But I haven't really paid attention to the kick.  I'll do that. 

The bass is a 5-string.  It sounds really really good.  Fills the whole room.

"The factory recommended starting point for tuning of the CSX212 is a 55Hz, 6dB boost, Q of 1 combined with a 20Hz, 24dB/Oct high-pass.  "  Do you mean that's what it should be in the DSP of the poweramp?  Is that something I should check, or do you recommend I leave that alone?

So...the fundamental on a 5 string open B is about 31Hz.  The perception of a system that does not reproduce that frequency well could still be "really good" as you would still be hearing the associated harmonic sequence. 
Unless you are dealing with slapped/funk/plucked bass the requirement of peak SPL/transient response will probably be very different between bass guitar and kick drum.  Listen to a track with kick that you really know and like.  See if it sounds good to you.  If so, more than likely there is something that needs to be addressed differently in the input signal chain from the kick mic such as compression, which has already been mentioned or you need to change how you are micing the drum or changes need to be made both to the micing and the signal chain.

Until you know what the incoming signal actually sounds like you cannot "fix" the problem since you don't really know what the problem is.

The recommended factory tuning is a starting point and should not just be arbitrarily utilized as "The Tuning".  It needs to be considered along with the overall system, the room, the overall requirements of frequency range vs. SPL, etc.  So, it is simply a starting point for someone who knows how to properly setup the system.

You can download the recommended baseline tunings at the manufacturers website https://martin-audio.com/support/loudspeaker-settings
the General Presets V3.9 zip file contains all current baseline tunings.

Lee

[Scott Holtzman]

I may give the pink noise a try.  Although, that's a bit over my head to be honest.

What part don't you understand?

[Kevin Maxwell]

I will probably say some of the same things that others have in response to your problem in this post.

How does playback of music that you are familiar with sound?

How long ago was this sound system put in? Are you in charge of the sound or one of the helpers? Has the system installer come in and explained how the system is setup and how to operate it? Obviously if they have they didn’t do a good enough job that you were able to understand enough to answer some of the questions here. Have they been told of the kick drum complaint? What is their answer? Do you have to pay to get the original installer in to show you how it works?

Have you tried muting the sound system while the bass player is playing to see how much difference it makes? Have you tried muting the bass players channel to see how much difference it makes? These tests are to make sure that what you are hearing is actually coming from the sound system.

What amp or amps are you using, what model Dynacord? Do you have the Martin settings for this amp (or these amps) for you system? How many amplifiers do you have for the house speakers? Is there a separate one for the Sub? Have you tried turning the sub amp off or if it is one side of an amp have you tried tuning that side off if you can? This is to see if it really makes a difference. Better yet turn off all of the other amps and leave only the Sub amp up.

You said that - “But last night, we hired a sound engineer to come in and run sound for us during a service.  He got there early and we went through a full sound-check.  As he went through the drums, he noticed that the kick just didn't sound right.  We moved the mic around and it sounded better, but he wasn't getting the sound that it should have.”

I would say if he knew of this problem and brought him in to deal with it he wasn’t there early enough to troubleshoot that problem. Or he doesn’t have the skills that you need to figure this out.

Does the kick drum have a hole in the head? Where is the mic placed on the kick? Do you have any pictures that you can post that will answer this and just the general setup of the speakers?

If this system isn’t setup with Aux fed subs it might help to change it to that type of setup. I know some people don’t like a system setup that way and it can lead to sub abuse. But it can help in a lot of cases if you only put in the sub what you want reproduced by the sub.

If the main speakers aren’t crossed over to eliminate the frequency range that the subs are supposed to reproduce, they can interfere and cancel some of the sub frequencies. Some of the tests I recommended will answer some of these questions.     

[Isaac South]

What part don't you understand?

Well if I can get it turned on first, which I think I can google it and figure out how, I wouldn’t know what to do with the sound. I guess just look at the RTA and level out any peaked frequencies??? Also, I’ll need to get a measurement mic, right?


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[dave briar]

just out of curiosity does the QU-32 board allow off line programming?

Nope. Sure wish the QU-24 at my normal venue did as I make great use of that capability on my X32s.

    ..db

[Scott Holtzman]

Well if I can get it turned on first, which I think I can google it and figure out how, I wouldn’t know what to do with the sound. I guess just look at the RTA and level out any peaked frequencies??? Also, I’ll need to get a measurement mic, right?


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You can get an analyzer amp on your phone to get  a rough idea.

I would not use pink noise.  I would use the oscillator and just start around 120hz and roll down.  Make sure it doesn't roll off prematurely.

[Tim McCulloch]

Well if I can get it turned on first, which I think I can google it and figure out how, I wouldn’t know what to do with the sound. I guess just look at the RTA and level out any peaked frequencies??? Also, I’ll need to get a measurement mic, right?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The reason to use noise, pink or otherwise, is because it randomly includes ALL frequencies within the stated bandwidth (subject to roll off around the edges from any filtering).  As a source used to evaluate audio components and systems for proper *technical* operation it's far better than music.  Using music makes our brains get fooled.  We fill in lots of missing info with what we think should be there, even when it's not.

If you send pink noise to the L/R outputs you should hear the "jet taking off" sound.  Turn off or turn down  the amplifier powering your top boxes and listen to what comes out of the sub.  If there's anything higher pitched than a low-ish rumble (especially if it sounds like the tops) you have a DSP issue.   Based on Lee's post that would be a preset in the amp.  If the subwoofer amp is not showing the correct preset you need to do 2 things - find out which one is supposed to be in use, along with any tweaks from the installer and recall it; and after verifying proper operation, find out how to lock out the amp front panel controls and lock it up.  Ditto for the amp(s) powering the top boxes.

I don't know if something was messed with or if the installers hit the wrong button but in an install there is almost no justifiable reason to leave presets and controls accessible.

[Isaac South]

The reason to use noise, pink or otherwise, is because it randomly includes ALL frequencies within the stated bandwidth (subject to roll off around the edges from any filtering).  As a source used to evaluate audio components and systems for proper *technical* operation it's far better than music.  Using music makes our brains get fooled.  We fill in lots of missing info with what we think should be there, even when it's not.

If you send pink noise to the L/R outputs you should hear the "jet taking off" sound.  Turn off or turn down  the amplifier powering your top boxes and listen to what comes out of the sub.  If there's anything higher pitched than a low-ish rumble (especially if it sounds like the tops) you have a DSP issue.   Based on Lee's post that would be a preset in the amp.  If the subwoofer amp is not showing the correct preset you need to do 2 things - find out which one is supposed to be in use, along with any tweaks from the installer and recall it; and after verifying proper operation, find out how to lock out the amp front panel controls and lock it up.  Ditto for the amp(s) powering the top boxes.

I don't know if something was messed with or if the installers hit the wrong button but in an install there is almost no justifiable reason to leave presets and controls accessible.

Ok that makes sense. I could see how our minds would imagine something is there when it’s not. Thanks for helping me understand it.

I’m 100% sure no one has messed with the power amps since installation.  Only a handful of people have access to them, and we wouldn’t know how to even do anything with the DSP even if we made it that far into the screens. Ha

I learned how to turn the noise generator on. Is it safe for me to go ahead and turn it on? Furthermore, once I turn it on, what should I do next?


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[Robert Lunceford]

There is a signal generator built into the QU series mixers. You can call up pink, white, sine wave, or band pass.
Press the dedicated "Setup" button. The generator is then under Audio - SigGen.
Choose the type of noise you want to generate, route the noise (in your case LR), increase the level. Make sure your master fader is up to an adequate level.
When using Sine, you can sweep the frequency. Start at around 100Hz and then sweep down to hear the low frequency response of your system.

[Chris Grimshaw]

The factory recommended starting point for tuning of the CSX212 is a 55Hz, 6dB boost, Q of 1 combined with a 20Hz, 24dB/Oct high-pass. 

Lee

Lee, I promise that highpass setting is wrong. It'll be way below the port tuning frequency and will still allow a lot of potentially damaging LF power to get to the cones. Without an impedance curve, I'd set off at 45Hz.

I can see that Martin have listed the 20Hz filter for all their subwoofers, and will be contacting them about that shortly.

Chris

[ProSoundWeb Community]