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Author Topic: Gibson... uh oh...  (Read 4066 times)

Bob Faulkner

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Ned Ward

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Re: Gibson... uh oh...
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2018, 04:13:11 PM »

Given the nut behind the wheel (Henry J.) was a matter of when, not if. Henry had fired the head of the custom shop, sales and marketing and loaded up on debt to buy consumer electronics no one else wanted.

Here's hoping that the new Gibson emerges out of bankruptcy without him. It's the only way the company doesn't fall apart further.
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John L Nobile

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Re: Gibson... uh oh...
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2018, 04:15:47 PM »

This makes me sad and I play keys. Condolences to all the guitar players here. I hope that whoever buys the company keeps their tradition.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Gibson... uh oh...
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2018, 04:43:45 PM »

The brand will survive, Henry who knows..?

With that much debt the debtors will be calling the shots in bankruptcy.

JR
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: Gibson... uh oh...
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2018, 06:30:18 PM »

He gets a position as "transition consultant" for a couple mil over the next year.

Why would anyone trying to right the ship have any interest in his ideas?  One doesn't solve problems with the same thinking that caused them.

Maybe Heritage will buy out the name.  ;)
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Dave Pluke

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Re: Gibson... uh oh...
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2018, 06:31:50 PM »

...and loaded up on debt to buy consumer electronics no one else wanted.

That one had me scratching my head at the Consumer Electronics Show a few years back  ::) .

Dave
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Gibson... uh oh...
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2018, 09:42:23 PM »

Being a Gibson user, owner, and lover of all things Gibson guitar since the 50's has given me a sort of insight into the successes and failures associated with Gibson, then Gibson brands.

The 50's and 60's were the guitar decades. Fender and Gibson ruled supreme and no other manufacturers were even close. Everyone wanted to be the next guitar player of fame, to belong to the best band on the planet, and to own a Gibson or Fender guitar. There were no equals. Kay, Sears Silvertone, Danelctro, etc. were all available for 1/10th the cost, but the fact remained. If you were a serious player it was Fender or Gibson.

In the early 70's the garage band influence became less appealing, Japan and Korea were shipping some decent guitars to the USA, and younger players were given a selection of playable guitars never before seen. And in the 70's, with the onset of all things distortion, volume became more important than tone.

About the same time Gibson sold to Norlin marking the era of less than acceptable quality in a high number of manufactures pieces, even into entire series. The ES series being one of the most notable. This quality good enough attitude further pushed Gibson users and followers, myself included, to the point where other brands were considered acceptable where they once were not. I personally did not purchase a new Gibson between 1970 and 1986.

Henry J. and his clan purchased Gibson at a point where Gibson was just about done as a company. They resurrected the brand, insisted on quality, changed many of their manufacturing steps, and once again became the #1 brand of quality guitars around the world. They introduced the custom shop and historic divisions, and again the bar was raised. All of my Gibson's were either produced before 1972 or by the custom shop after 1989. They are all beautiful pieces of playable perfection.

In the past 20 years or so Gibson diversified and became Gibson brands. Those brands include Onkyo, Neat, Cerwin Vega, Cakewalk, Stanton, KRK, Cakewalk, and entire Phillips consumer lines.

It is, as has been stated in many articles now and in the past, the consumer brands and the money leveraged against those brands that have brought about the $500,000 deficit that Gibson is claiming chapter 11 against. $135 million of which comes from the money losing acquisition of the Phillips brand consumer products division purchased in 2014. To that end Gibson will restructure and the debt will be forgiven and the lenders will/have taken control of the company.

I would expect that in the end Gibson and Epiphone will be what remains, and all other facets of the company will be gone along with Henry J.. It's another Norlin era, with the exception quality remains high in Memphis, Nashville, and Boseman.
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Gibson... uh oh...
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2018, 09:50:52 PM »

He gets a position as "transition consultant" for a couple mil over the next year.

Why would anyone trying to right the ship have any interest in his ideas?  One doesn't solve problems with the same thinking that caused them.

Maybe Heritage will buy out the name.  ;)

Heritage thought they had a chance at producing a Gibson equal in the past. Being in the old Kalamazoo building doesn't equal Gibson by any stretch of the imagination. Heritage has already called it quits once and has zero or less chance of making an equal to a Gibson, let alone owning the company. Gibson guitar is operating at a profit, and other than Gibson musical instruments they also own the Epiphone, Kramer, Steinberger, Dobro, and Baldwin brands. All profitable brands. You might also note that Fender is also operating at a loss.
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Luke Geis

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Re: Gibson... uh oh...
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2018, 12:00:45 AM »

As far as I understand and comprehend it, Henry is walking out with a shit eating grin. He gets a severance package and a " contract " that will keep him set up pretty nicely for what many of us will take a lifetime to make. So much for punishing a bad business man..... I am one who does not see Gibson as the epitome of a quality brand, but more of a " you pay for the name " type of brand. Yes they make damn good instruments, but they also come at a price that you better not be getting a plywood guitar.

The concept of a luxury brand never set well with me. It is like saying the Gibson is the Rolls Royce of guitars. They aren't at all. They make good guitars and charge top dollar for them, that's fine, I will pay $2.4k for a standard when it actually becomes a standard. It was destined for failure. Everyday people don't buy Gibson products made by Onkyo, or Phillips. If you ask 100 people if they know who Gibson is, the only ones who will know will be musicians and perhaps a couple that are friends with one. They forgot about their roots. They make quality guitars, not computer monitors......

The good thing is this though. The Gibson company will be saved and will be resurrected. They will get back on track and they will continue making Gibson guitars. With any luck they will actually forget about trying to be a luxury brand and simply do what they get paid for, which is to make really good guitars that maintain value and get passed on for generations. I was born in an era in which I missed the chance to get a real Gibson and by the time I was interested in one, they were more expensive than the actual quality you were getting " paying for the name ". I doubt there will be many guitars from the 80's, 90's and even 2000's that will demand the figures that any 59' models have and do.

I am slowly starting to acquire a vintage selection of guitars. I have 3 at this point that are all older than me ( 39 presently ). While neither is a highly valuable model of anything, they are good guitars and they will outlast me. Many luthiers these days are making guitars that make any standard production Gibson seems like a Chinese knock off. The only thing that brings value to the Gibson guitar brand right now is simply that name. Lest they forget whence they came. There is a luthier that makes a 59 Les Paul replica that sells for more than $30,000 and it may very well be worth that; if he can do it, others can too. I would love to get a brand new Gibson Les Paul, I just want it to be built in such a way that I know it will be worth that expense 50 years from now. It is not likely that I will be able to get a real 59 Les Paul any time soon..... It sure would be nice that a 2020 model is worth 100X its price 50 years from now.
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: Gibson... uh oh...
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2018, 01:53:03 AM »

Heritage thought they had a chance at producing a Gibson equal in the past. Being in the old Kalamazoo building doesn't equal Gibson by any stretch of the imagination. Heritage has already called it quits once and has zero or less chance of making an equal to a Gibson, let alone owning the company. Gibson guitar is operating at a profit, and other than Gibson musical instruments they also own the Epiphone, Kramer, Steinberger, Dobro, and Baldwin brands. All profitable brands. You might also note that Fender is also operating at a loss.
Every Heritage I've played has been consistently good.  One of the few guitars I would buy sight unseen, or un-played.  Gibson's on the other hand are all over the map.  Most folks I know who've bought one recently have ended up taking it to a luthier to get things straightened out. 
I love my '85 335 but it took me a couple years to find it.  So much gack to wade though to find a good one.
Besides investing in slim margin consumer electronics, Henry presided over a proliferation of models almost as bad as Fender.  I can never figure out which one is supposed to be "exactly" like a vintage one.  They keep coming up with models where they get this or that aspect "exactly" like a vintage model, but then 6 months later come out with another vintage reissue with some other aspect "exactly like" the old ones.
It's a pretty open secret that folks like Page don't play actual Gibsons.  They have copies made by specialist luthiers and Gibson looks the other way since even their "custom shop" can't make the big name happy.
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Re: Gibson... uh oh...
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2018, 01:53:03 AM »


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