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Author Topic: Live Sound for Musicians  (Read 6223 times)

Peter Kowalczyk

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Re: Live Sound for Musicians
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2018, 07:16:46 PM »


Short of that, try to rely on a trusted friend in the audience to tell you what they can't hear in the mix. (Then turn everything else down.)

This is good.  I've often done exactly that when our band performs and 'mixing' falls to me.
... The common practice of mixing yourself from stage has also been discussed here, and that's a whole 'nother can o worms...
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Andrew Hollis

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Re: Live Sound for Musicians
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2018, 08:02:01 PM »


Sound systems can be thought of in three parts:
 - Inputs
 - Processing
 - Outputs

Inputs: Mics and DIs, Mic level vs. Line Level, Microphone directionality
Processing: Preamps, EQ, Busses (Aux vs. Group), Effects (Series vs. Parallel)
Outputs: Amplifiers, Line level vs. Speaker level, Speakers & Space & Output EQ

A noble cause, good luck!

I'd mind the semantics:

Mics, voices, instruments; these are not inputs. They are sources. Inputs are on consoles. A musician will not think of themselves as an input.
Vice versa for outputs (the physical thing on the console). Amps, speakers, recorders, etc are destinations.

When one refers to the mic, the console input, and the channel all as inputs, it makes for frequent miscommunication. It lacks specificity. Someone even in this thread suggested saying input's-to-outputs. I think that will make heads spin, it doesn't make much sense for signal-flow thinking.

This language makes even more sense in digital, as many consoles are routers.

Is an aux an input or an output? Neither is the best way to describe an aux; it's a source and a destination, depending on the perspective (analog out vs channel, respectively, for example)!

Also, you say "series and parallel processing." Call it what it is, insert or send (aux) processing. There is no console that says series or parallel on it, and parallel means something else to engineers anyway.

Steve Loewenthal

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Re: Live Sound for Musicians
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2018, 11:00:47 AM »

Speaking as a noob to digital mixers, you might want to briefly cover some terms and equipment made possible, enhanced or just required/desired by the digital environment. Digital snake, why use my own router, Dante, show/scene, monitor mixing from a phone/tablet vs something like the Behringer P16-M. Also compatibility between brands.
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Steve Loewenthal

"I'm, just the guy in a band that owns the PA and I'm trying to figure out how it works. (Been trying to learn somethin' about it for about 20 years and I hope somethin' learns me soon)"

Mike Caldwell

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Re: Live Sound for Musicians
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2018, 08:30:05 PM »

Going over different types of audio connectors and the functions of the pins/connections on the connectors and why just because a plug will fit a jack doesn't always mean you should plug it into that jack.
Maybe take that on into cable types, I don't know how many times I've found guitar players using a speaker cable for a guitar cable, the noise usually is big clue!

The importance of a high pass filter on inputs as well the system/subs realizing and hoping of course that many powered systems should already have one in place.

Basic wireless set up, transmitter gain setting seems to always get overlooked, though today some transmitters do that automatically.

Like already mentioned, stage volume, mic technique, gain staging, don't forget muting effects when talking between songs.



Tim McCulloch

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Re: Live Sound for Musicians
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2018, 09:48:50 PM »

Going over different types of audio connectors and the functions of the pins/connections on the connectors and why just because a plug will fit a jack doesn't always mean you should plug it into that jack.

Maybe take that on into cable types, I don't know how many times I've found guitar players using a speaker cable for a guitar cable, the noise usually is big clue!

The importance of a high pass filter on inputs as well the system/subs realizing and hoping of course that many powered systems should already have one in place.

Basic wireless set up, transmitter gain setting seems to always get overlooked, though today some transmitters do that automatically.

Like already mentioned, stage volume, mic technique, gain staging, don't forget muting effects when talking between songs.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.
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Callan Browne

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Re: Live Sound for Musicians
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2018, 05:45:19 AM »

As a musician who 'owns and runs the pa', I'm glad to read I'm already doing most of what is mentioned in this thread. Maybe that's just the years of reading various threads on here and lots of trial and error.

One area where I'm still green, is using the EQ to take a source from good to great.
My take on EQ so far has mostly been.. use quality components. My JBL SRX/VP PA has never had a headroom issue and basically no feedback either. Also using mostly Sennheiser 900 mic's. I'm spoilt no doubt.
But a topic I'd love to see covered, is channel eq - how to make those vocal/toms/guitars sound great. Pop when needed, but sit in the mix otherwise. How do you do that with a set and forget mix?

And feel free to post the content online. I'm sure there's a world wide need, not just local community. (And Let me know when it's up :))

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Live Sound for Musicians
« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2018, 06:18:35 AM »

As a musician who 'owns and runs the pa', I'm glad to read I'm already doing most of what is mentioned in this thread. Maybe that's just the years of reading various threads on here and lots of trial and error.

One area where I'm still green, is using the EQ to take a source from good to great.
My take on EQ so far has mostly been.. use quality components. My JBL SRX/VP PA has never had a headroom issue and basically no feedback either. Also using mostly Sennheiser 900 mic's. I'm spoilt no doubt.
But a topic I'd love to see covered, is channel eq - how to make those vocal/toms/guitars sound great. Pop when needed, but sit in the mix otherwise. How do you do that with a set and forget mix?

And feel free to post the content online. I'm sure there's a world wide need, not just local community. (And Let me know when it's up :))

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Start another thread on eq, let us know the mixer type.  EQ is very important to getting everything to sit nice in mix.  EQ and compression are your friends.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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Callan Browne

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Re: Live Sound for Musicians
« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2018, 08:01:33 AM »

Cheers Scott, generous offer and I might do just that. I have a multi track recording from our last few shows so I can experiment more without the pressure of a venue environment.

What I thought might be useful for the OP is some real world examples of a mix (or mixes) and some commentary of why choices were made.

For example, I took this vocal, replaced the cardoid with a super-cardoid to achieve X. I applied this eq/dynamics to correct Y. I added this effect to .. etc etc.

Mucisian focused - what to listen for, how to correct it.

Class one is get sound without feedback, class two sound like a pro. Simple.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: Live Sound for Musicians
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2018, 08:36:50 AM »

+1 on what Scott said. Start a thread. Would be cool to have a PSW-approved EQ "cheat sheet".

Chris
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: Live Sound for Musicians
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2018, 10:59:16 AM »

+1 on what Scott said. Start a thread. Would be cool to have a PSW-approved EQ "cheat sheet".

Chris

I don't think an EQ cheat sheet as in "EQ by these numbers" would be the best thing to put out for public consumption. Sure there are general EQ guide lines that are a good starting point but there are just too many variables in play to have a one size fits all EQ setting for house EQ or input channels.

As for the Sound for Musicians ideas, maybe go over how to really critically listen to your instruments tone as in what is really coming out of the amp by listing in front of the amp and not standing over the top of it and how that tone will work in the context of a full band mix. Same thing for a drum set.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2018, 07:13:22 PM by Mike Caldwell »
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Live Sound for Musicians
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2018, 10:59:16 AM »


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