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Author Topic: Man Cave Acoustics Problem  (Read 1852 times)

David Morison

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Re: Man Cave Acoustics Problem
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2018, 08:19:47 am »

That's easier than getting the D9 EQ into the building... :)

Nah, D9 gets its self into the building, didn't you know that   ;)
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Robert Healey

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Re: Man Cave Acoustics Problem
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2018, 12:01:32 pm »

[Can you record the sound?

I put a mic in the room and walked around clapping, then saying test, and last I connected a board and speaker and used a noise app on my phone to generate sound to record. Hope this works. I noticed that the issue seemed the most prominent at around 650-700 Hz. I uploaded it to a cloud folder and hope this link works. If it doesn't work I will ask Stephanie to reset her YouTube password and post it there.

Thanks

https://cwshartwellinc-my.sharepoint.com/:f:/g/personal/stevecrump_cwshartwellinc_onmicrosoft_com/Ei90sTYfrSFNhmVKlousitwBn49HlQ1noM77xgKcdUa5qw

Sounds like a flutter echo to me. I wouldn't put too much stock into the frequency content since none of your measurements use full-spectrum sources.

I mentioned absorption because I was also assuming that the room is too reverberant based on the pictures. Diffusion would work to break it up, too. Diffusion, however, is usually more expensive than absorption

You need a band of absorption on two adjacent walls from below seated ear height to above standing ear height. A panel 1" works fine for stopping flutter.

I agree with others that foam is a bad idea. Use something fire rated.

You may not need to do the ceiling - some metal building insulation has suprisingly high absorption values.
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Chris Hindle

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Re: Man Cave Acoustics Problem
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2018, 12:12:54 pm »


Also, with John's option we would have to deal with a lingering smell of smoke.
Anyone know of a Deep Purple tribute band looking for a venue ?  8)
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Steve Crump

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Re: Man Cave Acoustics Problem
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2018, 12:18:39 pm »

Sounds like a flutter echo to me. I wouldn't put too much stock into the frequency content since none of your measurements use full-spectrum sources.

I mentioned absorption because I was also assuming that the room is too reverberant based on the pictures. Diffusion would work to break it up, too. Diffusion, however, is usually more expensive than absorption

You need a band of absorption on two adjacent walls from below seated ear height to above standing ear height. A panel 1" works fine for stopping flutter.

I agree with others that foam is a bad idea. Use something fire rated.

You may not need to do the ceiling - some metal building insulation has suprisingly high absorption values.


Thank you Robert.

Steve Crump

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Re: Man Cave Acoustics Problem
« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2018, 12:44:00 pm »

Anyone know of a Deep Purple tribute band looking for a venue ?  8)

How about Bad Company- "No Smoke Without a Fire"....

Unless you are referring to the color on the wall, the picture doesn't show it correctly it is a red.

Red Hot Chili Peppers.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 12:51:50 pm by Steve Crump »
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lindsay Dean

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Re: Man Cave Acoustics Problem
« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2018, 02:00:46 pm »

I would cut barn style doors following the roofline about two thirds of each side of the door upstairs .
Trim them out with 1x4s barn door style. Put them on hinges, whenever you're playing swing them back at an angle and the sound will be Reflected into that back room.  the more junk in that Upper Room the more diffusion will happen when it enters
(this will be much like creating a large windows for the sound to escape from the band room)
 On the bottom wall you can cover that with panels using Owens Corning 703 Series 2 in space off of the wall.
 I would probably cover that 40 to 60% and you're all set.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Man Cave Acoustics Problem
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2018, 02:06:57 pm »

I would cut barn style doors following the roofline about two thirds of each side of the door upstairs .
Trim them out with 1x4s barn door style. Put them on hinges, whenever you're playing swing them back at an angle and the sound will be Reflected into that back room.  the more junk in that Upper Room the more diffusion will happen when it enters
(this will be much like creating a large windows for the sound to escape from the band room)
 On the bottom wall you can cover that with panels using Owens Corning 703 Series 2 in space off of the wall.
 I would probably cover that 40 to 60% and you're all set.

I think you guys need to meet:  http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,167142.msg1541326/topicseen.html#new

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David Allred

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Re: Man Cave Acoustics Problem
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2018, 03:36:18 pm »

Stagger the panels on opposition walls for most bang for the buck.
-   -   -   -   -   -
  -   -   -   -   -
Some coverage % recommendations seem a bit excessive.  Of course, it depends on your goal.  I treated a high school band room a couple of years back.  Only covered 15% of 3 walls and about 5% of the 4th.  2x4x2" Knauf, one side foil faced.  Built half with foil side out because that is what our testing and modeling showed to balance the resonances of that room to maintain lively enough without flutters and nasty frequency-based tails.
Maybe these data points will help, though each room is different and these readings were made at the director's podium by design. 


                           250hz   500hz   1000hz   2000hz   4000hz
   
Before treatment   3.3 secs   5.5 secs   1.5 secs   1.8 secs   1.0 secs
After treatment           2.1 secs   1.3 secs    .9 secs    1.0 secs     .8 secs
               
RT60 reduction           1.2 secs   4.2 secs    .6 secs      .8 secs     .2 secs
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Robert Healey

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Re: Man Cave Acoustics Problem
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2018, 10:30:19 pm »

One more note. My son and I plugged a guitar and mic in, he sang and played, and nothing, no ringing, but when I speak loudly, ringing. This is where I need some educating.

I didn't notice this post before but if the problem is flutter echo as the mounting evidence indicates, you are hearing this because your ears and mouth are in fairly good alignment with the parallel walls. Same thing with clapping. Your natural instinct is to clap in front of you. If you extend your arms as far down as you can reach and then clap you may not hear the flutter any more.

If the speakers are at a vertical angle to your ears, there is less of a chance of a flutter echo due to the directivity of the speakers and the fact that the speaker-to-ear reflection path is at an angle that bounces towards the floor or ceiling. There probably is a flutter echo in a straight line from the speaker to the wall, but you can't hear it.

For the same reason, it can be tricky to measure reverberation time in a room with parallel walls - if the mic and speaker are in the right position, you can measure the flutter instead of the RT, which seriously confuses programs like EASERA that automatically calculate an RT value.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 10:36:41 pm by Robert Healey »
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Steve Crump

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Re: Man Cave Acoustics Problem
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2018, 09:13:57 pm »

Just to report back. We hosted Adam and Chris Carroll for our first house concert. I set up two Evox 8s, installed some canvas pictures on the walls, a little acoustic foam and with 40 guests in place, there were absolutely no acoustic issues apparent. Absolutely great sound.

Thanks to everyone who responded.
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