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Author Topic: Man Cave Acoustics Problem  (Read 1848 times)

Caleb Dueck

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Re: Man Cave Acoustics Problem
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2018, 03:32:42 am »


I will try a recording over the weekend and try to post it or a link
If it's flutter echo and you want to tame it inexpensively - I know of some 2" acoustic duct liner.  At 50% coverage your cost works out to a bit over $1/sq ft.  For similar but easy to install - $2/sq ft plus adhesive (Loctite PL). 

If you need treatment on surfaces other than walls, there is great recycled cotton insulation, also flame retardant, in sizes 3.5" up to 8" thick.  Bonded Logic, best price is at Menards. 

If mechanical vibration - find the source and tighten (of cables) or dampen (mass, rubber shock absorbers, etc).

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

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Steve Crump

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Re: Man Cave Acoustics Problem
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2018, 12:31:46 pm »

[Can you record the sound?

I put a mic in the room and walked around clapping, then saying test, and last I connected a board and speaker and used a noise app on my phone to generate sound to record. Hope this works. I noticed that the issue seemed the most prominent at around 650-700 Hz. I uploaded it to a cloud folder and hope this link works. If it doesn't work I will ask Stephanie to reset her YouTube password and post it there.

Thanks

https://cwshartwellinc-my.sharepoint.com/:f:/g/personal/stevecrump_cwshartwellinc_onmicrosoft_com/Ei90sTYfrSFNhmVKlousitwBn49HlQ1noM77xgKcdUa5qw

John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Man Cave Acoustics Problem
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2018, 12:40:27 pm »

The cave man fix is to light the offending new wall on fire, and listen for flutter echo while it is burning. When the flutter echo stops, put out the fire. (Kidding)

JR
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Steve Crump

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Re: Man Cave Acoustics Problem
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2018, 12:52:32 pm »

As you may have found in your home studio, one does not have to cover an entire wall.  Just break it up enough so that it isn't one giant diaphragm or reflecting surface.
[/quote]


My biggest worry with this project is that I will not put the panels (on the wall) where I need them.
When I did the studio I just purchased acoustical foam and glued it to lauan then stapled the lauan to the wall randomly. I also built boxes out of 1x4s and lauan and then glued acoustical foam to the lauan and hung the completed box by cable and everything worked out fine. But I didn't have any knowledge or a specific approach, I just randomly installed panels until the room had a decent sound.
This go around I would like to have at least some insight on what I should do.
I still have some of the acoustic foam, I can go buy some more 1/4" plywood and mount those to the wall. But my questions would be,
(1) What is a good panel size?
(2) With a 16' tall wall, what mounting height?
(3) Is there a specific spacing or pattern?
(4) Would it be a better approach to wrap the beam first?

For me right now building wall panels seems easier, since I have the 1' x 1' foam on hand. I really don't have enough foam on hand to do wall and ceiling panels right now, so I would like to focus on walls.

I will attach photos of what I built before.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 12:58:43 pm by Steve Crump »
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Steve Crump

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Re: Man Cave Acoustics Problem
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2018, 12:53:33 pm »

The cave man fix is to light the offending new wall on fire, and listen for flutter echo while it is burning. When the flutter echo stops, put out the fire. (Kidding)

JR

Yeah, we discussed a similar option.

Tim McCulloch

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Re: Man Cave Acoustics Problem
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2018, 02:10:49 pm »

The cave man fix is to light the offending new wall on fire, and listen for flutter echo while it is burning. When the flutter echo stops, put out the fire. (Kidding)

JR

That's easier than getting the D9 EQ into the building... :)
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Steve Crump

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Re: Man Cave Acoustics Problem
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2018, 02:18:37 pm »

That's easier than getting the D9 EQ into the building... :)


Putting the artist outside the building is sounding much better.... Besides the hourly rate for the D9, plus having the building hauled off, dumping fees, then having to have somewhere to house my good "stuff" etc. It may be cheaper to hire a consultant..... :)

Also, with John's option we would have to deal with a lingering smell of smoke.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 02:22:17 pm by Steve Crump »
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Man Cave Acoustics Problem
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2018, 02:45:11 pm »

As you may have found in your home studio, one does not have to cover an entire wall.  Just break it up enough so that it isn't one giant diaphragm or reflecting surface.



My biggest worry with this project is that I will not put the panels (on the wall) where I need them.
When I did the studio I just purchased acoustical foam and glued it to lauan then stapled the lauan to the wall randomly. I also built boxes out of 1x4s and lauan and then glued acoustical foam to the lauan and hung the completed box by cable and everything worked out fine. But I didn't have any knowledge or a specific approach, I just randomly installed panels until the room had a decent sound.
This go around I would like to have at least some insight on what I should do.
I still have some of the acoustic foam, I can go buy some more 1/4" plywood and mount those to the wall. But my questions would be,
(1) What is a good panel size?
(2) With a 16' tall wall, what mounting height?
(3) Is there a specific spacing or pattern?
(4) Would it be a better approach to wrap the beam first?

For me right now building wall panels seems easier, since I have the 1' x 1' foam on hand. I really don't have enough foam on hand to do wall and ceiling panels right now, so I would like to focus on walls.

I will attach photos of what I built before.

Steve, I don't want to get into your private affairs but you've created a place of public assembly (in the eyes of my local AHJ, at least) and if you use "foam" I must ask if it's *rated* for installation in such places of assembly.

Remember The Station nightclub fire 15 year ago?  It killed 100 people and injured over 200 more.  While the pyro was the initial cause of the fire the *foam* installed above and behind the stage was responsible for the high rate of flame spread and the initial toxic (fatal) combustion products that disabled or killed people before the flames got to them.  I'm not trying to be Donny Downer but this bit of preemptive evaluation is important.


Putting the artist outside the building is sounding much better.... Besides the hourly rate for the D9, plus having the building hauled off, dumping fees, then having to have somewhere to house my good "stuff" etc. It may be cheaper to hire a consultant..... :)

Also, with John's option we would have to deal with a lingering smell of smoke.

Before you treat anything you need to figure out what is resonating that didn't before hand.  I suspect that you have at least 2 things going on - the flutter echos created by the new wall and the wall is physically coupled to structural steel that is now "singing".  Treating the flutter echo will likely require more that a couple inches of rock wool or fibreglass over 35%-50% of the surface area.  How thick the treatment, how far it's spaced from the walls, how much coverage area depend on how "low you need to go", frequency wise, to clean up the acoustic response.  Treating steel by wrapping it only applies some attenuation to that singing.  Ideally one would de-couple the source of excitation from whatever structure is conducting the vibrations.

The 700Hz thing is interesting because that could be secondary coupling to another undamped resonator or (more likely) the most obvious spectrum of the flutter echo.

The Hindsight (20/20 remix)-
Since you put up the wall to hide stuff, I'd take the wall out and call Exclusively Expo and get some 16 ft Banjo Cloth (the exhibit pipe and drape stuff, inherently flame retardant) and hang it where the wall was. 

You did a nice job on the wall and you have money and sweat invested in it; the remaining question is how much more of those are you willing to put in to fix the cosmetic fix that fixed the "visual ugly" but created ugly acoustics?
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 02:47:26 pm by Tim McCulloch »
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Steve Crump

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Re: Man Cave Acoustics Problem
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2018, 04:06:18 pm »

The Hindsight (20/20 remix)-
Since you put up the wall to hide stuff, I'd take the wall out and call Exclusively Expo and get some 16 ft Banjo Cloth (the exhibit pipe and drape stuff, inherently flame retardant) and hang it where the wall was. 


Tim,

This is a promising idea. It may be the easiest approach.

Thanks

One more note. My son and I plugged a guitar and mic in, he sang and played, and nothing, no ringing, but when I speak loudly, ringing. This is where I need some educating.

Once again, thanks for any info..
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 04:24:00 pm by Steve Crump »
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Man Cave Acoustics Problem
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2018, 04:40:52 pm »

The Hindsight (20/20 remix)-
Since you put up the wall to hide stuff, I'd take the wall out and call Exclusively Expo and get some 16 ft Banjo Cloth (the exhibit pipe and drape stuff, inherently flame retardant) and hang it where the wall was. 


Tim,

This is a promising idea. It may be the easiest approach.

Thanks

One more note. My son and I plugged a guitar and mic in, he sang and played, and nothing, no ringing, but when I speak loudly, ringing. This is where I need some educating.

Once again, thanks for any info..
The ringing will be frequency (wavelength) dependant... that may make the damping easier, or not. I like the advice to be aware of flammability of damping installed in interior spaces.  FWIW cardboard egg crates are flammable. I've been in some old spaces that were truly dangerous.

JR
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