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Author Topic: Man Cave Acoustics Problem  (Read 1575 times)

Steve Crump

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Man Cave Acoustics Problem
« on: April 13, 2018, 11:54:36 am »

We have been doing music in our barn on and off for several years and I have had no serious acoustical issues. This year we made a decision to start hosting house concerts a couple times during the year at our barn. I made some structural changes and now I have a serious "ringing" issue in my barn. I have attached a picture of the wall which seems to have created the issue. This wall, with the barn doors leading to the bar, used to be only 8' tall with an open mezzanine area above. I decided to continue the wall up to the roof structure to hide our junk. Now when I speak loudly in the room I get this ringing coming from the steel columns and beam (pictured). Stephanie, my wife said put some treatment on the wall, but I am not sure about that curing all of the problem, because on the opposite side of the room there is, and always has been a floor to roof wall adjacent to an exact copy of the beam you see in the picture and now I am getting ringing from that side of the room also. The odd part is that the other side is not ringing as bad as the side with the newly completed wall. This is not a money making venture, so I am seeking a DIY approach. Thanks for any thoughts.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 02:32:00 pm by Steve Crump »
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Art Welter

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Re: Man Cave Acoustics Problem
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2018, 02:54:00 pm »

Now when I speak loudly in the room I get this ringing coming from the steel columns and beam (pictured). Stephanie, my wife said put some treatment on the wall, but I am not sure about that curing all of the problem, because on the opposite side of the room there is, and always has been a floor to roof wall adjacent to an exact copy of the beam you see in the picture and now I am getting ringing from that side of the room also. The odd part is that the other side is not ringing as bad as the side with the newly completed wall.
Steve,

Have you tried treating the ringing steel columns and beams?

Art
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Steve Crump

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Re: Man Cave Acoustics Problem
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2018, 04:32:31 pm »

Steve,

Have you tried treating the ringing steel columns and beams?

Art

Art,

Not really. We wedged some acoustical foam into the column which seems to be producing the most ring and then it seemed that we were noticing the ring more at that point in the beam connecting the two columns front and back. It seems that the acoustic energy is reflecting off the new wall and hitting the beam and vibrating. Stephanie says it sounds like you're talking into a metal trash can. It really seems to ring the most in one corner no matter where you're standing and talking in the room. As far as the slight ring on the other side of the room, I really wonder if that is just happening because of the mechanical connections between the beams, because it is almost inconsequential on that side.

I am just not really keen on hanging stuff on the wall trying to see if that helps, the wall is big and could require a lot of stuff and I think that isolating the beam and column would be a more likely solution. I have no real knowledge here, to quote Brian, it is just a WAG.
 
 We were able to "tame" our home studio. We just built wall treatments and hung on the walls and ceilings, it worked, but I don't want to go that way again.
Steph suggested buying large painter's drop clothes and draping them from the roof girts, down under the beam and connect to the wall. I might try it, I am just wondering if anyone here has dealt was this scenario before. Have any thoughts on the drop cloth idea?

The bigger issue for me is that we have our first house concert scheduled in three weeks. I can move it outside, but I am screwed if it rains.

I will try to attach a sketch of the floor plan, the cloud indicates the corner that has the ring.
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Robert Healey

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Re: Man Cave Acoustics Problem
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2018, 05:19:46 pm »

I will try to attach a sketch of the floor plan, the cloud indicates the corner that has the ring.

I have seen rooms where a large, flat panel was energized by loudspeakers and then reproduced audible noise (happens all the time with thin fiberglass reinforced gypsum ceiling clouds), but I am having a hard time believing that a steel beam of the thickness and size that I see in your pictures could be energized in the same way. Can you record the sound?

Something else to consider - "talking into a metal trash can" sounds like it could be a flutter echo, which is a rapidly repeating reflection between parallel walls. Your floor plan makes it look like that is a strong possibility as the room is square. Flutter can be stopped by a 1" fabric-covered fiberglass acoustical panel. Typical materials cost for those are $7-8/sf.
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Steve Crump

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Re: Man Cave Acoustics Problem
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2018, 06:55:13 pm »

I have seen rooms where a large, flat panel was energized by loudspeakers and then reproduced audible noise (happens all the time with thin fiberglass reinforced gypsum ceiling clouds), but I am having a hard time believing that a steel beam of the thickness and size that I see in your pictures could be energized in the same way. Can you record the sound?

Something else to consider - "talking into a metal trash can" sounds like it could be a flutter echo, which is a rapidly repeating reflection between parallel walls. Your floor plan makes it look like that is a strong possibility as the room is square. Flutter can be stopped by a 1" fabric-covered fiberglass acoustical panel. Typical materials cost for those are $7-8/sf.


I will try a recording over the weekend and try to post it or a link
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: Man Cave Acoustics Problem
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2018, 08:29:55 pm »

There is non-expanding spray foam you can get.  I've seen many metal beams covered with that stuff.

As you may have found in your home studio, one does not have to cover an entire wall.  Just break it up enough so that it isn't one giant diaphragm or reflecting surface.
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Dave Garoutte

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Re: Man Cave Acoustics Problem
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2018, 08:31:04 pm »

Here is a link to the acoustic panels I use. PANEL
You can use them uncovered to try out.
Mount them an inch or two from the wall.
If you place them on opposite walls, have them not lined up with each other; panel on one wall opposite open space on other wall.
A couple horzontal over the performance space works wonders also.

I'm working on a DIY kit with interior wood frame and proper fire-rated sound cloth.
Also stands for portable applications.
I'll post it here eventually.
Photo is a 2 x 4 x 2" panel.

« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 08:43:21 pm by Dave Garoutte »
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frank kayser

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Re: Man Cave Acoustics Problem
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2018, 08:56:39 pm »

Rather than absorption wall panels like fiberglass, foam, fabric and the like, would a diffusion panel work in that situation?
https://www.auralex.com/products/diffusion/


I would guess a flocking-type of spray insulation on the exposed metal beams would seem to be a minimum necessary absorptive treatment.
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Dave Garoutte

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Re: Man Cave Acoustics Problem
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2018, 11:13:54 pm »

The best spaces have both absorbers and diffractors.
But I suspect the biggest problem is the parallel walls.
If the new wall had been built at an angle, the flutter and standing waves would have been reduced.
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Nothing can be made idiot-proof; only idiot resistant.

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Bob Leonard

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Re: Man Cave Acoustics Problem
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2018, 11:48:05 pm »

Rather than absorption wall panels like fiberglass, foam, fabric and the like, would a diffusion panel work in that situation?
https://www.auralex.com/products/diffusion/


I would guess a flocking-type of spray insulation on the exposed metal beams would seem to be a minimum necessary absorptive treatment.

Get's my vote.
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BOSTON STRONG........
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I did a gig for Otis Elevator once. Like every job, it had it's ups and downs.
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