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Author Topic: Ground this....  (Read 3174 times)

Nathan Riddle

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Re: Ground this....
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2018, 10:55:12 am »

Forgive my ineptness with NEC.

But would grounding to the pipe actually help at all?

Or ground rods, or nearly anything other than a dedicated ground wire?

My understanding is grounds can become dangerous if there isn't a dedicated ground wire in the system and grounding to pipes is only permissible when using ALL metal pipes which is highly unlikely these days (basically its for grandfathered piping systems).
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Ground this....
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2018, 11:38:51 am »

I think they reused the existing underground wiring and just poured new pads and hung new pedestals. But I have very little information just yet. But I know it's an error x100.
Ugly, but use of GFCI outlets in the pedestals will provide a modicum of human safety.

JR
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Kevin Graf

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Re: Ground this....
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2018, 11:50:23 am »

If it's an all metal water pipe system camp-ground wide, it will be a lot better grounding system than ground rods.  But it has to be done correctly.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Ground this....
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2018, 12:27:35 pm »

If it's an all metal water pipe system camp-ground wide, it will be a lot better grounding system than ground rods.  But it has to be done correctly.
But if the copper isn't bonded to neutral (like due to some plastic plumbing), a fault energizing that floating ground at one pedestal, could energize the floating ground at all the other pedestals (like my old kitchen wiring).

JR
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Kevin Graf

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Re: Ground this....
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2018, 01:05:38 pm »

But if the copper isn't bonded to neutral (like due to some plastic plumbing)............................
JR
That's the problem with metal pipe ground systems.  As time goes by, more and more plastic finds its way into the system. In my old suburb, they are replacing the metal main pipes with plastic, a few streets at a time.  I don't know what they do about grounding the individual homes that only have water pipe grounds.
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Ed Hall

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Re: Ground this....
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2018, 02:22:13 pm »

Work like that is why I use these. I always meter everything before connecting but you never know what’s wrong down the line or will be tomorrow!

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Rob Spence

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Ground this....
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2018, 02:34:20 pm »

Mike, great catch.

I hope you get published before someone dies.

I would think the maker of the pedestals would want it fixed before they get caught up in lawsuits.

I hope the campground is closed. If not I hope a camper calls the state AHJ.



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Mike Sokol

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Re: Ground this....
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2018, 04:48:58 pm »

That's the problem with metal pipe ground systems.  As time goes by, more and more plastic finds its way into the system. In my old suburb, they are replacing the metal main pipes with plastic, a few streets at a time.  I don't know what they do about grounding the individual homes that only have water pipe grounds.

If there's metal pipes interconnecting these pedestal "grounds" in an area, but a section of the mail feeder pipe was changed to plastic, then a hot-to-chassis short in one of the RVs could energize all the other RVs in that section, as well as electrify the water from any spigot in that section. Seems like a very dangerous situation to me that shouldn't be allowed.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Ground this....
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2018, 05:00:22 pm »

If there's metal pipes interconnecting these pedestal "grounds" in an area, but a section of the mail feeder pipe was changed to plastic, then a hot-to-chassis short in one of the RVs could energize all the other RVs in that section, as well as electrify the water from any spigot in that section. Seems like a very dangerous situation to me that shouldn't be allowed.
+1... GFCI outlets and forget the copper plumbing ground will probably do less harm to humans, and be affordable.

JR
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Kevin Graf

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Re: Ground this....
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2018, 05:02:19 pm »

If the pipes are metal and accessible, they should be at least bonded to the Safety Ground at each pedestal. If there is 10 feet or more, metal pipe in the earth, they serve the same function as a ground rod.
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