ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Observation: Many subs seem most sensitive at around 100Hz.  (Read 881 times)

Gordon Brinton

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 427
  • ID Verified
    • Raw Depth Sound, Harrisburg, PA
Observation: Many subs seem most sensitive at around 100Hz.
« on: April 08, 2018, 11:46:16 am »

I mix a lot of rock and modern country bands in small venues, so levels can get a bit strong in the heat of the night. I generally don't go much over 100dB, but still, that sounds fairly loud in a typical bar or banquet room.

I've owned several different brands and models of subs over the years, and mixed on even more that were owned by others. In my opinion, many of them, regardless of type, seemed to be more prone to feedback at or near 100Hz. This especially if they are on or against a hollow wooden stage that transfers vibration.

I frequently end up notching sharply at 100Hz just to squeeze out a bit more punch or high-passing vocals and instruments to keep things under control. Even my front-loaded 18's that are supposedly flat (+/- 3dB) from 40 to 120 seem to be more sensitive at 100Hz than they are at 60 and 80Hz. They have a fixed crossover at 120Hz, so I must deal with it.

I was just wondering if anyone else has noticed this.
Logged
Member since 2005.

Paul G. OBrien

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 817
Re: Observation: Many subs seem most sensitive at around 100Hz.
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2018, 12:41:56 pm »

They have a fixed crossover at 120Hz
I bet that is your problem. What subs are they? Are you high passing the tops at 120hz too or running them full range? An 80hz low pass on subs sounds better to me and I never run tops full range... always crossed at the same frequency or higher than the subs.
Logged

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8559
  • Atlanta GA
Re: Observation: Many subs seem most sensitive at around 100Hz.
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2018, 01:23:46 pm »

All you have to do is to look at the freq response graphs of various subs, and that will answer the question on sensitivity.

But yes, in general, most subs are higher in sensitivity at the higher freq.
Logged
A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Riley Casey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1128
Re: Observation: Many subs seem most sensitive at around 100Hz.
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2018, 09:15:42 am »

High passing vocals should be the default starting set up for any live performance micing. There is nothing you need below 120hz on a male voice and 140 for a female voice and those choices are easily dialed higher if the acoustics demand.  There is no reason your stuck with 120 the low pass on your subs either.  Feed the subs from an aux buss with an EQ cut at 100 hz and I suspect your mix will clean up noticeably.



I frequently end up notching sharply at 100Hz just to squeeze out a bit more punch or high-passing vocals and instruments to keep things under control. Even my front-loaded 18's that are supposedly flat (+/- 3dB) from 40 to 120 seem to be more sensitive at 100Hz than they are at 60 and 80Hz. They have a fixed crossover at 120Hz, so I must deal with it.

Don T. Williams

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 591
  • Midas Pro 1 & 2, M32, dbTech T12, T8, S30, DM12
    • Q Systems Music & Sound
Re: Observation: Many subs seem most sensitive at around 100Hz.
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2018, 11:12:47 am »

High passing vocals should be the default starting set up for any live performance micing. There is nothing you need below 120hz on a male voice and 140 for a female voice and those choices are easily dialed higher if the acoustics demand.  There is no reason your stuck with 120 the low pass on your subs either.  Feed the subs from an aux buss with an EQ cut at 100 hz and I suspect your mix will clean up noticeably.

+1 for high-pass as the default setting.  There are still a few mixers out there with 6 dB/octave HP filters which are better than nothing, but barely usable.  Probably designed by the same people that design 120 Hz or 150Hz low-pass on a stand alone sub. Duh!
Logged

Gordon Brinton

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 427
  • ID Verified
    • Raw Depth Sound, Harrisburg, PA
Re: Observation: Many subs seem most sensitive at around 100Hz.
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2018, 02:53:57 pm »

Thanks guys. I already know how to deal with it. I've been high-passing vocals and such for over 30 years now. And I've experimented with almost every conceivable crossover routine known to man.

I was just making an observation about many subs in general, prior to applying processing.
Logged
Member since 2005.

Tim Weaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1989
  • College Station, Texas
    • Daniela Weaver Photography
Re: Observation: Many subs seem most sensitive at around 100Hz.
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2018, 06:14:22 pm »

I wrote this a few years ago, but the topic still comes up a lot. Setting the highpass and low pass at the same place is only "correct" if both speakers are playing at the same volume (flat response). Since rock and country like a lot more low end, the subs are always turnt, as our rapper friends would say....

https://www.prosoundweb.com/channels/live-sound/tuning_without_tools_working_through_a_system_to_get_it_up_to_speed1/
Logged
Bullwinkle: This is the amplifier, which amplifies the sound. This is the Preamplifier which, of course, amplifies the pree's.

Mark Wilkinson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 644
Re: Observation: Many subs seem most sensitive at around 100Hz.
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2018, 08:22:38 pm »


I was just making an observation about many subs in general, prior to applying processing.

Yeah, I agree about 100Hz sounding louder, but i don't think it's just a matter of looking at response curves, or pre vs post processing.
Because even with processing where i know i have flat response, 100Hz (and up)  always sounds  louder to me, than the lower sub freqs....
I've just attributed it to the equal loudness contours, fletcher-munson, etc.   
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 


Page created in 0.049 seconds with 23 queries.