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Author Topic: What do I need for my PA system next?  (Read 3467 times)

Sam Wade

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What do I need for my PA system next?
« on: March 31, 2018, 08:49:24 pm »

Hey all! Been a long time reader on here, love the info, now I need some help.
I recently started playing worship music with some guys again, been playing for many years, and have done some studio work, but am now diving a little into the live sound setup. I got tired of using cheap old sound systems in the church sanctuaries and youth rooms ran by volunteers. So Iíve been buying some gear. So far I have:
Allen & Heath MixWizard WZ3
JBL PRX710 pair
JBL SRX718S (ran with a Crown XLS2500) Front center of stage.

This system has been sounding awesome for what weíve been doing (Elevation Worship, Jesus Culture type stuff). Iíve been running the sub aux fed and pre-EQ and fader, running into the crown bridge mono and I have an 83 htz low pass filter it. Only putting kick and bass through (havenít played anywhere large enough to mic toms). I like a big deep bass sound, punchy, feel in your chest, with some high end click in the mains.
Been running the mains with full range (since there is no EQ on the back panel), but high passing every channel and EQ-ing all lowend out of each channel (that description was clear as mud).
Anyways, we played a youth room this past Wednesday that was very Ďlivelyí. Concrete walls, high ceiling, NO acoustic panels. Needless to say the mix was pretty muddy. My biggest problem was my sub was Ďringing outí when hitting the kick (long decaying resonance), it wasnt a punchy sharp hit that it has been the other places weíve played. Also the bass guitar would do this when he hit and A note.

So... my question, what do I need to fix these problem rooms since weíll be encountering it again. Iíve been looking at the driverack PA2. I figured I needed some type of EQ for my sub( besides low pass on the crown) and mains in a room like that, but I had absolutely none.
Iím on a pretty tight budget, but could swing the driverack if it would do the job for me. I also kicked around the idea of ditching the A&H and getting a digital mixer (StudioLive, XR18) but I love the WZ3!

Sorry for the long post, trying to give all the info!
Thanks!
 
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 10:52:41 pm by Sam Wade »
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Caleb Dueck

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Re: What do I need for my PA system next?
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2018, 10:25:04 pm »

Hey all! Been a long time reader on here, love the info, now I need some help.
I recently started playing worship music with some guys again, been playing for many years, and have done some studio work, but am now diving a little into the live sound setup. I got tired of using cheap old sound systems in the church sanctuaries and youth rooms ran by volunteers. So Iíve been buying some gear. So far I have:
Allen & Heath MixWizard WZ3
JBL PRX710 pair
JBL SRX718S (ran with a Crown XLS2500) Front center of stage.

This system has been sounding awesome for what weíve been doing (Elevation Worship, Jesus Culture type stuff). Iíve been running the sub aux fed and pre-EQ and fader, running into the crown bridge mono and I have an 83 htz low pass filter it. Only putting kick and bass through (havenít played anywhere large enough to mic toms). I like a big deep bass sound, punchy, feel in your chest, with some high end click in the mains.
Been running the mains with full range (since there is no EQ on the back panel), but high passing every channel and EQ-ing all lowend out of each channel (that description was clear as mud).
Anyways, we played a youth room this past Wednesday that was very Ďlivelyí. Concrete walls, high ceiling, NO acoustic panels. Needless to say the mix was pretty muddy. My biggest problem was my sub was Ďringing outí when hitting the kick, it was a punchy sharp this that it has been the other places weíve played. Also the bass guitar would do this when he hit and A note.

So... my question, what do I need to fix these problem rooms since weíll be encountering it again. Iíve been looking at the driverack PA2. I figured I needed some type of EQ for my sub, and mains in a room like that, but I had absolutely none.
Iím on a pretty tight budget, but could swing the driverack if it would do the job for me. I also kicked around the idea of ditching the A&H and getting a digital mixer (StudioLive, XR18) but I love the WZ3!

Sorry for the long post, trying to give all the info!
Thanks!
The best way to fix bad rooms is with a bulldozer. 

For quick and dirty room tweaks to the EQ - a small digital mixer with output PEQ. 

The ideal is a good DSP (not Driverack), time, SmaartLive, and a good knowledge of system alignment.  This looks to be outside the time and cost scope of your current system, however. 

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

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Mike Caldwell

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Re: What do I need for my PA system next?
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2018, 11:19:57 pm »

Hey all! Been a long time reader on here, love the info, now I need some help.
I recently started playing worship music with some guys again, been playing for many years, and have done some studio work, but am now diving a little into the live sound setup. I got tired of using cheap old sound systems in the church sanctuaries and youth rooms ran by volunteers. So Iíve been buying some gear. So far I have:
Allen & Heath MixWizard WZ3
JBL PRX710 pair
JBL SRX718S (ran with a Crown XLS2500) Front center of stage.

This system has been sounding awesome for what weíve been doing (Elevation Worship, Jesus Culture type stuff). Iíve been running the sub aux fed and pre-EQ and fader, running into the crown bridge mono and I have an 83 htz low pass filter it. Only putting kick and bass through (havenít played anywhere large enough to mic toms). I like a big deep bass sound, punchy, feel in your chest, with some high end click in the mains.
Been running the mains with full range (since there is no EQ on the back panel), but high passing every channel and EQ-ing all lowend out of each channel (that description was clear as mud).
Anyways, we played a youth room this past Wednesday that was very Ďlivelyí. Concrete walls, high ceiling, NO acoustic panels. Needless to say the mix was pretty muddy. My biggest problem was my sub was Ďringing outí when hitting the kick (long decaying resonance), it wasnt a punchy sharp hit that it has been the other places weíve played. Also the bass guitar would do this when he hit and A note.

So... my question, what do I need to fix these problem rooms since weíll be encountering it again. Iíve been looking at the driverack PA2. I figured I needed some type of EQ for my sub( besides low pass on the crown) and mains in a room like that, but I had absolutely none.
Iím on a pretty tight budget, but could swing the driverack if it would do the job for me. I also kicked around the idea of ditching the A&H and getting a digital mixer (StudioLive, XR18) but I love the WZ3!

Sorry for the long post, trying to give all the info!
Thanks!

Actually the DBX Driverack Venue 360 is good and would do everything you need such as stereo mains and aux sub.
You can set up the 360 on a wifi network/router and walk around with a tablet as you adjust the EQ.

As for a digital mixer take a look at the Ui24,or stay in the Allen Heath family with a QU Pac or QU SB.

You do need an EQ, one on the mains and one for the subs since your doing aux subs.
In addition to that proper high pass filtering for the PRX710 since it appears not to have a "use with sub" mode selection.

You want to set up the XLS crossover mode for band pass, that way you set a high pass filter and low pass filter for the sub. Try 35hz for the high pass, your 83hz low pass is fine for now.

With a DSP or plain ole analog crossover on the system I would put around a 110hz high pass on the PRX710 and bump up the sub low pass to 90hz.



Bradford "BJ" James

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Re: What do I need for my PA system next?
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2018, 09:21:48 am »

Did you try just turning the aux send down? Lively rooms donít do well with a lot if low end, though I agree that a suitable dsp will help by eliminating the unwanted lows of your prx710ís as well as proving some eq. That money would go a fair ways towards a digital desk that would already have those features.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2018, 09:31:07 am by Bradford "BJ" James »
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Sam Wade

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Re: What do I need for my PA system next?
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2018, 09:38:59 am »

Thanks for the replies and suggestions so far!
I did try bringing down the aux sub, but was really unsatisfied with how it sounded when I got the ringing out (lows were pretty much non-existent).

So the Venu360 is that much better than the PA2. Iím not set on running an aux sub if I can have the system properly setup, but that 360 does look pretty good and I do like to have that option since the WZ3 is set up for running an aux sub from the mono fader.

Unfortunately the XLS2500 doesnít have a band EQ. In bridge mono it can only do hi or lo pass filters on it. Iíve been wanting to stick a hi-pass on the sub around 35-40hz (someone else mentioned that could help with the resonance that I was getting). But had no way to do it. Which is one of the main reasons for looking at the driverack line.
Thanks again!
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Mal Brown

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Re: What do I need for my PA system next?
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2018, 11:09:33 am »

Dump the MW. Great in itís day, behind the times now.  UI-24 would be a far better choice.

Dump the aux fed subs approach in favor of hi passing the channels you donít want in the sub. Use the RTA on the ui-24 to help isolate the frequencies that are the cause of the boom.   Channel by channel and on the mains. 

Move the sub around and see if that mitigates or changes the boom.  Use a tablet to walk the room for hot spots.
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David Sturzenbecher

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Re: What do I need for my PA system next?
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2018, 12:13:29 pm »


Dump the aux fed subs approach in favor of hi passing the channels you donít want in the sub.

If you know what you are doing, aux fed subs is a superior solution for cleaning up low end muck then a channel HPF on its own.  See...one-aux-fed-sub-thread-per-month on this forum for the past 5 years.
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Dave Garoutte

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Re: What do I need for my PA system next?
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2018, 03:40:43 pm »

One of reasons everyone is suggesting a small digital mixer (Ui24) is that you can get by without the driverack because of the on-board eq on the outputs.
You get a lot of extras; PEQ, GEQ, mobility, FX, . . . 
Phenomenal value and quality for the $.
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Mal Brown

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Re: What do I need for my PA system next?
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2018, 04:06:40 pm »

If you know what you are doing, aux fed subs is a superior solution for cleaning up low end muck then a channel HPF on its own.  See...one-aux-fed-sub-thread-per-month on this forum for the past 5 years.

Actually I do know what Iím doing and have Aux fed subs programs in the BSS Mini Drives I use.  I used them for quite a while.  Almost never now though.  As digital HPF implementations have gotten more sophisticated I find it easier to set those and not have to bring up or down 2 separate volumes to control my mains.  Back in the days of the 80hz button, Aux fed for sure.

IMO - aux fed subs requires an understanding of the relative volumes of the subs and tops and what happens to your crossover point as volume changes only on one side...  I think HPF is an easier get for a lot of folks.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: What do I need for my PA system next?
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2018, 05:06:32 pm »

Actually I do know what Iím doing and have Aux fed subs programs in the BSS Mini Drives I use.  I used them for quite a while.  Almost never now though.  As digital HPF implementations have gotten more sophisticated I find it easier to set those and not have to bring up or down 2 separate volumes to control my mains.  Back in the days of the 80hz button, Aux fed for sure.

IMO - aux fed subs requires an understanding of the relative volumes of the subs and tops and what happens to your crossover point as volume changes only on one side...  I think HPF is an easier get for a lot of folks.
Kind of depending on the nature of a system's use, eh?  I'd use a different controller design for a performing arts center than for a convention space, which would be different from a house of worship (in their various flavors).  Much depends on the needs of tenants/clients/owners and the level of technical and artistic expertise afforded by their crew.  For a band running its own sound from stage?  Different still. 

In my little corner of the regional provider biz, the use of a full range or a subs-on-aux system is an artistic decision made by the headline BE/TD and it's up to my crew to provision and deploy the rig accordingly.  There is no right or wrong, there is no consideration of the factors involved with installs or BRSFS (band running sound from stage), there is only the way the BE wants it.

When I'm mixing I like subs on aux for the creative control I can get with relatively few control changes.  That said, I like my systems to be linear at some identifiable control positions (say, -3 on subs and -0- on mains) so I can restore to a known system voice.
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