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Author Topic: No fuses? No problem!  (Read 3039 times)

Nathan Riddle

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No fuses? No problem!
« on: March 30, 2018, 10:42:35 am »

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John Daniluk (JD)

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Re: No fuses? No problem!
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2018, 11:25:23 am »

While running a power issue in a club, found bolts replacing the 100a fuses....

jd
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: No fuses? No problem!
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2018, 11:59:46 am »

Back in the '70s I was repairing a custom fixture and found a length of aluminum round stock cut to length and used in place of a standard fuse. I charged an extra "stupidity tax" for that repair.

JR
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Keith Broughton

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Re: No fuses? No problem!
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2018, 05:40:59 pm »

ECM always has an interesting article or two. This one's a doozy :)



http://www.ecmweb.com/ops-maintenance/12-reasons-why-electricians-should-always-be-looking-trouble/gallery?slide=11
I suspect under heavy load or a short, those copper wires would vaporize :o
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Mike Sokol

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Re: No fuses? No problem!
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2018, 07:24:03 pm »

I suspect under heavy load or a short, those copper wires would vaporize :o

Yes, we call that a fuseable link... ;)
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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: No fuses? No problem!
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2018, 07:57:34 pm »

I have seen 1/2" copper pipe flattened on each end to fit in place of a 100 amp size fuse.  Seems like more work thatn it is worth.

That said, there is a situation where a non-fused disconnect would be acceptable-if the upstream over current protective device is sized appropriately, sometimes code requires a disconnect "within sight" of a load.  If that is the case here, the only real code violation is the fact that those fuse holders are certainly not listed to be used with pieces of solid wire!
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: No fuses? No problem!
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2018, 09:32:05 am »

I suspect under heavy load or a short, those copper wires would vaporize :o
You might be surprised by how much current that takes... About a year ago I needed to DIY a small fuse to get an amp working until replacement fuses arrived. I macgyvered a single stand of the smallest wire I could find (30ga?) tacked across the blown fuse, but decided to look up it's fuse current and that was close to 10A IIRC.  :o

 (BTW kids don't do this at home).

JR
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Kevin Graf

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Re: No fuses? No problem!
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2018, 03:17:23 pm »

Yep, fusing current for copper wire:
30AWG  ::  10.2A
12AWG ::  235A
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: No fuses? No problem!
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2018, 06:07:30 am »

Yep, fusing current for copper wire:
30AWG  ::  10.2A
12AWG ::  235A
Those values are in free air, right? 

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

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Kevin Graf

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Re: No fuses? No problem!
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2018, 09:09:31 am »

Those values are in free air, right?     
Based on Preece  and Onderdonk.
https://www.powerstream.com/wire-fusing-currents.htm
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Nathan Riddle

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Re: No fuses? No problem!
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2018, 11:47:37 am »

I suspect (and I have no way to prove this), but I'd bet whoever was there "needed" it to supply power and wanted something akin to a "fuse" and used the copper wire.

The bolts sound scary...

Based on Preece  and Onderdonk.
https://www.powerstream.com/wire-fusing-currents.htm

This is schweet :) thanks!
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: No fuses? No problem!
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2018, 02:38:21 pm »

You might be surprised by how much current that takes... About a year ago I needed to DIY a small fuse to get an amp working until replacement fuses arrived. I macgyvered a single stand of the smallest wire I could find (30ga?) tacked across the blown fuse, but decided to look up it's fuse current and that was close to 10A IIRC.  :o

 (BTW kids don't do this at home).

JR
Been there, done that, more times than I will admit.  But in controlled situations, NOT for a customer to take with them.

But NOT recommended.
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Mike Sokol

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Re: No fuses? No problem!
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2018, 02:50:01 pm »

Based on Preece  and Onderdonk.
https://www.powerstream.com/wire-fusing-currents.htm

That's great, but I don't see the fusing currents for a 1/4" nutdriver.  ;D
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Ron Hebbard

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Re: No fuses? No problem!
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2018, 03:13:52 pm »

That's great, but I don't see the fusing currents for a 1/4" nutdriver.  ;D
  Hollow shaft or solid? 
Toodleoo!
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Mike Sokol

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Re: No fuses? No problem!
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2018, 03:45:16 pm »

Based on Preece  and Onderdonk.
https://www.powerstream.com/wire-fusing-currents.htm

Can I print this out to show the AHJ why he should ignore my solid wire jumpers in place of fuses?
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Mike Sokol
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: No fuses? No problem!
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2018, 03:58:43 pm »

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Tim McCulloch

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Re: No fuses? No problem!
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2018, 05:11:14 pm »

Can I print this out to show the AHJ why he should ignore my solid wire jumpers in place of fuses?

How about an inline "wire/fuse" holder that is protected by an appropriate (for wiring size/terminals/etc) OCPD?  You could demonstrate how much current flows through (and with an infrared camera, show the heat) a conductor about to "fuse".
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Mike Sokol

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Re: No fuses? No problem!
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2018, 05:22:52 pm »

How about an inline "wire/fuse" holder that is protected by an appropriate (for wiring size/terminals/etc) OCPD?  You could demonstrate how much current flows through (and with an infrared camera, show the heat) a conductor about to "fuse".

Back in the day we called this a "smoke test".
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Mike Sokol
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: No fuses? No problem!
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2018, 05:47:50 pm »

Back in the day we called this a "smoke test".

Smoking is on the downswing, Mike. ;)

Controlled destruction for instruction!
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: No fuses? No problem!
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2018, 08:22:01 pm »

Releasing smoke is a way to keep students awake...

JR
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Dave Garoutte

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Re: No fuses? No problem!
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2018, 09:52:38 pm »

Not to mention that the melted/exploded copper could start a fire.
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Mike Sokol

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Re: No fuses? No problem!
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2018, 10:28:36 am »

Not to mention that the melted/exploded copper could start a fire.

Yeah, and with enough amperage behind it this becomes an arc-flash. And that's very serious, indeed...
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: No fuses? No problem!
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2018, 10:07:00 am »

I suspect under heavy load or a short, those copper wires would vaporize :o
Followed by an arc flash destroying the panel and anyone unlucky enough to be near it.
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