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Author Topic: Misprinted Info on Whirlwind All-In-One Signal/Power Cable  (Read 5561 times)

Dan Mortensen

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Misprinted Info on Whirlwind All-In-One Signal/Power Cable
« on: March 21, 2018, 06:44:45 pm »

My company/I bought a decent chunk of this cable , actually specifically this version which has two mic lines along with 12/3 in one outer jacket. Good for powered speakers etc.

Huh, last night I was able to find more images but am not finding them now.

Anyway, the printing on the jacket uniformly says "Whirlwind W2A12AC-APC SERIES- MULTI-SHIELDED AUDIO + POWER COMBO CABLE- 2 AES/EBU = 12-3 --- E11717" (then the backwards UR that I think indicates UL component but not assembly approval, then) "AWM STYLE 2502 80C 30V" .

I was looking at that and wondering "what the hell is that 30V? Shouldn't it be 300V?"

Finally asked my friend the dealer to ask Whirlwind about it; he did and they say (paraphrased) "OH NOES, THAT'S A MISPRINT THAT'S BEEN ON THERE FOR YEARS, IT SHOULD SAY 300V".

They say they'll give me a letter saying what it should be, but I'm thinking something that could be attached to each cable would be better, since I won't have a letter at every gig and it will degrade in time. I'm thinking something like a little tag for each cable attached with cable ties or something.

I'm curious

A) if anyone else has this cable and has had any problems with inspectors?
B) will the tag be sufficient?
C) if so, what should be on it?
D) and what would the best material be?

Thanks!

PS Here's a blowup of part of a photo I found online last night but can't find today showing the lettering as above. I wonder if I can't find it today because they took it down?

PPS Whirlwind has always been a straight-up company AFAIC so I don't doubt a bit that it's a mistake and not intentional.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2018, 06:30:11 pm by Dan Mortensen »
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Misprinted Info on Whirlwind All-In-One Signal/Power Cable
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2018, 08:03:12 pm »

when you print up a truckload of cable, you live with mistakes for some time.

JR
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Mike Sokol

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Re: Misprinted Info on Whirlwind All-In-One Signal/Power Cable
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2018, 09:27:58 pm »

I just forwarded this thread to my engineering guys at WW, and they've promised an answer from the factory soon. Hint, it might not be what you think...
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Misprinted Info on Whirlwind All-In-One Signal/Power Cable
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2018, 12:13:38 am »

I just forwarded this thread to my engineering guys at WW, and they've promised an answer from the factory soon. Hint, it might not be what you think...

Because it's not considered an 'attached power cord'?  My guess is, based on the "AWM STYLE 2502" this cord is re-purposed from another use (instrumentation, servo motors or communications).
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Dan Mortensen

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Re: Misprinted Info on Whirlwind All-In-One Signal/Power Cable
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2018, 03:06:23 pm »

This answer came yesterday:

"It's actually not a mistake but a specification we have to meet for UL.

  "While it is true the 12/3 component of this cable will handle 300 volts
without a problem, the overall cable can only be rated to the lowest rated
components in the cable per UL.

"Which in this case is the 24 AWG components, per EIS approvals with U.L.
this component can only be rated for 30 volts, hence the 30volt rating on
the overall cable."

So that means no component of the assembly can be used at voltages higher than 30 Volts?

Or am I missing something about cable ratings?
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Jeremy Young

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Re: Misprinted Info on Whirlwind All-In-One Signal/Power Cable
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2018, 05:16:26 pm »

The way I interpret that is that the XLR part of the cable is 24ga, and since it's all inside the same outer sleeve (or "overall cable" as they are calling it), the markings on the outer sleeve are de-rated to suit the "weakest link" which is the XLR part. 

Under normal use you would not be applying any mains voltage to the signal portion of the cable, but it could see 48v phantom if used for something other than your intended use (microphone applications, not the line level signals you'll be using it for). 

If you were to strip back some of that outer casing, I'd expect you'd see higher voltage ratings on the sleeve of the 12/3 component ("12G 3Cond. Shielded Jacketed Group" from the cross section in your link).  But please don't peel that back on my account.  Whether or not the AHJ sees it this way is really the only concern I'd have in your shoes.

As to the original response of it being a typo, that really isn't consistent with the second response you received.  Hopefully the second one was the correct one. 
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Dan Mortensen

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Re: Misprinted Info on Whirlwind All-In-One Signal/Power Cable
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2018, 06:29:26 pm »


If you were to strip back some of that outer casing, I'd expect you'd see higher voltage ratings on the sleeve of the 12/3 component ("12G 3Cond. Shielded Jacketed Group" from the cross section in your link).  But please don't peel that back on my account.  Whether or not the AHJ sees it this way is really the only concern I'd have in your shoes.

I have a little over a foot total stripped back from the ends because fan-outs is how it's used, and there are no visible markings on the inner 12-3 jacket, which seems is maybe a thinner version of the vinyl jackets on lots of power cords (like an IEC cord). At least it visually conforms to the shape of the twisted 12-3 more than the IEC cords conform to the shape of 14-3, for example.

As to the original response of it being a typo, that really isn't consistent with the second response you received.  Hopefully the second one was the correct one.

Yes that they are not consistent, no to a hope the second one is correct. I prefer the mislabling explanation, which would be a lot easier to sort out, I think.
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Mike Sokol

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Re: Misprinted Info on Whirlwind All-In-One Signal/Power Cable
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2018, 08:35:13 pm »

The way I interpret that is that the XLR part of the cable is 24ga, and since it's all inside the same outer sleeve (or "overall cable" as they are calling it), the markings on the outer sleeve are de-rated to suit the "weakest link" which is the XLR part. 

Bingo.... I just got this explanation from JP at Whirlwind:

I was able to confirm that the 12-3 inner jacket is indeed rated for 300V.  However, as suspected, the outer jacket can only be rated as high as the lowest inner jacket, which in this case is the 24 AWG AES, hence the 30V overall rating.
 
FWIW, I have never encountered a situation where an inspector found fault with this.
 
Thanks again for the heads-up.
 
JP 
                                                                                                                                                     
 
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Dan Mortensen

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Re: Misprinted Info on Whirlwind All-In-One Signal/Power Cable
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2018, 10:17:11 pm »

Bingo.... I just got this explanation from JP at Whirlwind:

I was able to confirm that the 12-3 inner jacket is indeed rated for 300V.  However, as suspected, the outer jacket can only be rated as high as the lowest inner jacket, which in this case is the 24 AWG AES, hence the 30V overall rating.
 
FWIW, I have never encountered a situation where an inspector found fault with this.
 
Thanks again for the heads-up.
 
JP 
                                                                                                                                                     
 

Thanks, Mike.

If confronted, how do I prove that the inner jacket has a 300V rating, since it is unprinted?

I have not personally had a lot of experience with inspectors, but have been told it's their way or the highway and they can be hard to convince without evidence.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Misprinted Info on Whirlwind All-In-One Signal/Power Cable
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2018, 10:47:22 pm »

Thanks, Mike.

If confronted, how do I prove that the inner jacket has a 300V rating, since it is unprinted?

I have not personally had a lot of experience with inspectors, but have been told it's their way or the highway and they can be hard to convince without evidence.

You can't, if the inspector is being a dick.  It could be printed as 3000V and he can still say no.  If he's being a dick.

I had an inspector in Texas with too much time on his hands and he took exception to the  2 SJOW amp rack cables because they were run on the ground (arena dirt).  We used tie line to hang them under the stage and he was less grumpy but was still looking around when I mentioned the non-compliant CamLock terminations in the county-owned and county-inspected venue (they were individual tails hanging from Romex clips).  He decided to go inspect food vendors.
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut
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