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Author Topic: Diy build suggestions  (Read 9212 times)

Chris Grimshaw

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Re: Diy build suggestions
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2018, 12:21:32 PM »

Hey Don,
It was more the bit about spending less money for better results. If you do your homework, you can do better for cheaper - you bypass a lot of markups by building your own. If you pay yourself time in research, building, finishing and testing, you'll probably lose out, though.
For me, it started as a hobby, so my time was free.

Chris
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Diy build suggestions
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2018, 12:58:54 PM »

Hey Don,
It was more the bit about spending less money for better results. If you do your homework, you can do better for cheaper - you bypass a lot of markups by building your own. If you pay yourself time in research, building, finishing and testing, you'll probably lose out, though.
For me, it started as a hobby, so my time was free.

Chris

And I disagree for MOST users, Chris.  Frankly many of them can't do the math or figure out BassBox or HornResp.

Your results are atypical, IMHO. because you have a far greater immersion in this topic than a typical DIY person "saving money".  Most money savers don't have clue and couldn't get a clue even if they used "rent to own."  For every "successful" DIY build you read about there are probably dozens by competent builders that fall short.  How short we don't know, but I'd further assert for every "semi-successful" build there are 100 failures of differing levels of acoustic, mechanical or wood working severity.

The failure of the DIY community to come up with a bass horn and the ridiculous price charged by an east coast company then owned by Mackie/LOUD is what prompted Tom Danley to design the LABhorn and give it away.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2018, 01:01:08 PM by Tim McCulloch »
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Diy build suggestions
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2018, 02:45:40 PM »

Hey Don,
It was more the bit about spending less money for better results. If you do your homework, you can do better for cheaper - you bypass a lot of markups by building your own. If you pay yourself time in research, building, finishing and testing, you'll probably lose out, though.
For me, it started as a hobby, so my time was free.

Chris
The big problem with most DIY, is that people that just because THEY did it, it MUST be good.

Same thing goes for modifications of equipment.  Sometimes (if you know and understand what you are doing), you can improve the performance, but that usually comes at a price that the original manufacturer did not want to spend.

Just because something is "custom" does NOT mean that it is better.  In many cases, it is actually worse, but people are proud of what they did anyway.

Getting the little details correct, can take years of playing around (some call it research-I call it having fun), measuring, picking apart the measurements, understanding the measurements, and what you can and cannot do.

Not everybody has those skills.

I know that in my case, I have been building/designing speakers for over 40 years.  I still learn something all the time (of course I have a good teacher these days :) ).  Not a week goes by that I don't get a bit of enlightenment and develope a better understanding.

The problem is, the more I learn, the more I realize how little I actually know. :(


The more you learn, the more the little details matter.
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Mark Wilkinson

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Re: Diy build suggestions
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2018, 06:35:09 PM »

Chris, I have to agree with Tim.....DIY odds are poor. 
You (and I) are an anomaly, mainly because we love this stuff and even enjoy the homework.

If a guy's out to save money, I think DIY is about the last way to do it with two exceptions....

First, he already has the construction tools, and he builds a well known highly regarded freebie ....that is either a sub that need no processsing, or if a top includes crossover design/processing ....examples being the Tom Danley's Labsub or the Peter Morris's DIY, or many other proven designs.

Second, and a much rarer situation, ......he has the construction tools, ... and has measurement tools, and has devised a way to make measurements, and can do his own processing,........ and is willing to go through the iterative construction process of making a good design...
Well, IMHO he still can't win....
Unless he uses premium components as found in high $ commercial offerings, that leave a ton of markup on the table.

Cause really, how can you beat a manufacturer at the low or even middle price point...with their experience, and their low cost of manufacturing, their testing facilities,and  their flippin expertise...
It seems to me, the only way to top a manufacturer is at the high price point, where markups reflect component costs, and give everyday guys a chance to compete.

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Roland Clarke

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Re: Diy build suggestions
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2018, 10:27:49 PM »

Can you build a “better” system for the money, absolutely.  Manufacturers have to either compromise or charge more for the components they use.  My view is that there are few DIY projects that are really any good, a lot of that goes to poor design And concept.  I’ve read many diy threads and even the good ones often get derailed by “noise”, and by focusing on trivial things at the expense of the whole project.  A good example is the excellent Peter Morris diy mid top, even with some great contributions, it’s very hard to distill a solid train of thought from the thread and even then there are are a lot of variants, some that will no doubt work better than others.
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Lyle Williams

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Re: Diy build suggestions
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2018, 03:57:59 PM »

Buy a speaker with a good reputation.  Buy it used.  If it isn't what you need you will be able to sell it on, having lost very little money.

DIY speakers are worth nothing to other people.  Every dollar that goes in (even if you somehow make a great speaker) will be a dollar lost.
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lindsay Dean

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Re: Diy build suggestions
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2018, 05:12:29 PM »

  No offense to the op, but when I see someone describing their ultimate goal  as,
"big hifi. Warm musical bass, full warm mids, intelligible vocal region and lots of sparkle"
 it is an indication that they truly do not understand what they're asking for. The sound of a system relies on microphones, source material, quality cables, amplifiers etc., tuning, room size and shape, liveness,  deployment, so many things more than trying to build a DIY box. 
     Unless it's just a labor of love and something you just feel compelled to do you,  would be much better served to step up to better  components incrementaly, maybe even rent some speakers you're interested in until you find something you like. Then save up your money and purchase a professionally made professionally tuned proven design that won't be a waste of time money and needless to say frustration.
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Mal Brown

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Re: Diy build suggestions
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2018, 05:27:23 PM »

I think the DIY aspect to this is kind of a red herring.  Maybe a better approach would be The best mic, DI, mixer and box on stick I could afford - and then spend the hours really dialing it in.  Let your skills be the discriminator... hardware by itself isn’t going to be...
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Marjan Milosevic

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Re: Diy build suggestions
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2018, 05:51:00 PM »

  No offense to the op, but when I see someone describing their ultimate goal  as,
"big hifi. Warm musical bass, full warm mids, intelligible vocal region and lots of sparkle"
 it is an indication that they truly do not understand what they're asking for. The sound of a system relies on microphones, source material, quality cables, amplifiers etc., tuning, room size and shape, liveness,  deployment, so many things more than trying to build a DIY box. 
     Unless it's just a labor of love and something you just feel compelled to do you,  would be much better served to step up to better  components incrementaly, maybe even rent some speakers you're interested in until you find something you like. Then save up your money and purchase a professionally made professionally tuned proven design that won't be a waste of time money and needless to say frustration.

All valid points, but...
Flat sounding system is needed when you mix a band. But, this does not mean that the overall sound after the band sound guy finish the mix is flat. Because he tweaks all the instruments.

The OP is using only few instruments that goes along a backtrack. Meaning the fundamental part of his performance is pre-recorded, and that part for sure does not need to be flat. Think of club installs (not live music clubs, but "disco" clubs), those are never flat because it will sound horrible.

Joe Pieternella

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Re: Diy build suggestions
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2018, 03:50:11 AM »




The OP is using only few instruments that goes along a backtrack. Meaning the fundamental part of his performance is pre-recorded, and that part for sure does not need to be flat. Think of club installs (not live music clubs, but "disco" clubs), those are never flat because it will sound horrible.

You can expect most mixing and mastering systems to be very accurate even in EDM production. Hours are spent balancing and EQing the various elements to get the feel just right. Unless your system(including room acoustics) is flat you are basically changing the mix and feel of the song. Doing this on purpose would probably still get you better results if done on a song by song basis.
Take make it bun dem by Skrillex. Play this on a flat system first and then again on a bass boosted one and then with a smiley curve eq. The whole feeling changes.

Nightclubs mostly have booming bass and long high frequency decays.
The bass gets boosted because they want to have more than the other club across the road. And the high frequencies are often in abundance because it makes the system seem louder and when the room gets hot and filled with sweaty people more high frequencies will get adsorbed and they still want that edge so their system seems LOUD.

Having a flat system gives you the option to eq on your mixer based on what your channel needs not correcting for speaker inaccuracies. If something pre-recorded sounds bad on a flat system then the real problem is the original mix not the system.



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Re: Diy build suggestions
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2018, 03:50:11 AM »


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