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Author Topic: 8-ohm vs 70V distribution  (Read 2429 times)

John Roberts {JR}

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Re: 8-ohm vs 70V distribution
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2018, 06:21:11 pm »



While that is certainly possible I wouldn't want to be the one to install or service a series/parallel distributed speaker arrangement.  >:(

-Hal
amen.. think series Christmas tree lights.   :o

Service time/cost in fixed install is a major concern. Not having to guess what the installer did helps too. If you do a rube goldberg install, document the design tricks and leave copies where they can be found.

JR
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: 8-ohm vs 70V distribution
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2018, 12:08:02 pm »

70 volt gets a bad rap because it can be and often is installed as the cheapest alternative using the cheapest material available. Spend some money on it and it will rival any 8 ohm system.

While that is certainly possible I wouldn't want to be the one to install or service a series/parallel distributed speaker arrangement.  >:(

-Hal
I had to do that once.

A lot of the speakers were wired up out of polarity, different numbers in series etc.

It was a REAL pain, but the customer said it sounded "better than ever" when we were done.

I hope so :)
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Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

MikeHarris

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Re: 8-ohm vs 70V distribution
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2018, 04:32:04 am »

i am not a fan of dome tweeters in a system that will be asked to do live...since your owner gives a shit you might move him up to Martin CDD   Ivan may also have some better solutions as well
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David Sturzenbecher

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Re: 8-ohm vs 70V distribution
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2018, 10:41:42 am »

Does anyone know what magic EV has in their "automatic saturation compensation" feature?  The really hammered on it at infocomm, that the tonality doesn't change the more you load the line down.

https://www.electrovoice.com/technology.php?id=24
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: 8-ohm vs 70V distribution
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2018, 01:45:44 pm »

Does anyone know what magic EV has in their "automatic saturation compensation" feature?  The really hammered on it at infocomm, that the tonality doesn't change the more you load the line down.

https://www.electrovoice.com/technology.php?id=24
/www.prosoundweb.com/channels/av/tech-focus-automatic-saturation-compensation-asc/

This description suggests a sliding high pass filter at each speaker. The suggestion that "tonality" doesn't change despite a sliding LF cutoff sounds like marketing hyperbole (that's what they do), while arguably we can live with less "loud" very low bass for installed systems. 

Excessive LF content saturating magnetics is a real issue and I addressed it with a patented circuit while designing for that market at Peavey, last century.

Quote from: patent poop
US05509080 Roberts

04/16/1996 Bass clipping circuit. This circuit combines a simple clamp diode with a Baxandall tone control circuit to provide frequency selective (bass only) clipping. The benefit is allowing relatively large amounts of bass boost at low level but simultaneous clamping of the bass at high amplitude. Further the clamping of bass frequencies only, allows the high frequencies to mask the clamping. Limiting high amplitude bass frequencies prevents saturation of transformers commonly used in constant voltage distribution systems. This invention was used in several Architectural Acoustics mixer/amp products. Patent assigned to Peavey Electronics.

My approach was extremely cheap (only pennies when added to an existing tone control) and worked quite well. The bass clipper could be calibrated inside mixer/amps to protect that specific amp/transformer. Sonically the bass clipping only occurred at louder levels where the bass boost was not still needed (Fletcher-Munson). Clipping just the bass side of a tone control, effectively masked that clipping with unclipped HF content. I don't claim my system sounds identical (just sounds very good), while it lets the customers have their cake and eat it too (employ full bass boost), without cooking the amp/magnetics when LF levels get hot.

Of course all my children are beautiful (I like my ideas).  8)

JR
« Last Edit: June 17, 2018, 03:10:40 pm by John Roberts {JR} »
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: 8-ohm vs 70V distribution
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2018, 03:07:57 pm »

/www.prosoundweb.com/channels/av/tech-focus-automatic-saturation-compensation-asc/

This description suggests a sliding high pass filter at each speaker. The suggestion that "tonality" doesn't change despite a sliding LF cutoff sounds like marketing hyperbole (that's what they do), while arguably we can live with less "loud" very low bass for installed systems. 

Excessive LF content saturating magnetics is a real issue and I addressed it with a patented circuit last century while designing for that market at Peavey, last century.

My approach was extremely cheap (only pennies when added to an existing tone control) and worked quite well. The bass clipper could be calibrated inside mixer/amps to protect that specific amp/transformer. Sonically the bass clipping only occurred at louder levels where the bass boost was not still needed (Fletcher-Munson). Clipping just the bass side of a tone control, effectively masked that clipping with unclipped HF content. I don't claim my system sounds identical (just sounds very good), while it lets the customers have their cake and eat it too (employ full bass boost), without cooking the amp/magnetics when LF levels get hot.

Of course all my children are beautiful (I like my ideas).  8)

JR
Sometimes the simply things make for a better overall "experience". :)

The key is realizing what is most important to most people.
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Ivan Beaver
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: 8-ohm vs 70V distribution
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2018, 03:11:29 pm »

Sometimes the simply things make for a better overall "experience". :)

The key is realizing what is most important to most people.
Simple and cheap are two of my favorite things.

JR
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: 8-ohm vs 70V distribution
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2018, 06:43:42 pm »

Simple and cheap are two of my favorite things.

JR
As I like to say, The wheel is pretty simple, still works after all these years.  Hard to improve upon.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: 8-ohm vs 70V distribution
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2018, 07:24:59 pm »

As I like to say, The wheel is pretty simple, still works after all these years.  Hard to improve upon.
Not to veer but i noticed just yesterday that flies have not evolved enough to evade fly swatters (cheap and simple still wins) .

JR
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Luke Geis

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Re: 8-ohm vs 70V distribution
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2018, 09:37:08 pm »

Great JR..... Now in 1,000,000 years, flies will be 6' tall and run around with electric fly swatters whacking us as they do so laughing that they not only evolved to avoid swatters, but that they learned to use them.
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I don't understand how you can't hear your self
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