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Author Topic: USB sound card recommendations  (Read 5221 times)

Joe Kim

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USB sound card recommendations
« on: March 06, 2018, 05:35:11 PM »

Looking for recommendations for a pro-quality Windows (or Linux) USB sound card to record with (using two 1/4" TRS outputs from main mixer). We're a small band and church, but still would like to be able to enjoy high-quality recordings. Are there any available under $500? Will also consider PC sound cards, but USB preferred. Older hardware/OS also ok. TIA.
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Mac Kerr

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« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2018, 07:45:32 PM »

Looking for recommendations

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Luke Geis

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Re: USB sound card recommendations
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2018, 12:30:31 AM »

Any of the modern USB interfaces will be just fine. Focusrite Sapphire, M-Audio, Behringer; they all make a USB interface these days and they are all good.
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Keith Broughton

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Re: USB sound card recommendations
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2018, 06:47:10 AM »

The Behringer UMC202HD would work just fine and is under $100.
The UMC404HD is also under your budget and is 4 channels.
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Joe Kim

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Re: USB sound card recommendations
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2018, 10:42:11 PM »

The Behringer UMC202HD would work just fine and is under $100.
The UMC404HD is also under your budget and is 4 channels.

(Thank you Mr. Moderator for unmuzzling me <g>)

Really? Because I'm already using an M-Audio Quattro that was originally $350, albeit ancient (i.e. for XP). Are modern interfaces inherently better?

And I think our mixer is good enough (Allen & Heath GL2400), so I'm not sure why we just sound generally dark, muddy, and flat.

Can someone maybe try listening to the following clip, and suggest what might be the problem?

http://ge.tt/50oBjuo2
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Keith Broughton

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Re: USB sound card recommendations
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2018, 05:46:18 AM »

(Thank you Mr. Moderator for unmuzzling me <g>)

Really? Because I'm already using an M-Audio Quattro that was originally $350, albeit ancient (i.e. for XP). Are modern interfaces inherently better?

And I think our mixer is good enough (Allen & Heath GL2400), so I'm not sure why we just sound generally dark, muddy, and flat.

Can someone maybe try listening to the following clip, and suggest what might be the problem?

http://ge.tt/50oBjuo2
Link didn't work for me.
I can't speak to the quality of sound with the Quatro but I have used the M Audio USB Pre (old one)and the Behringer 404 and they sounded fine.
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Jay Barracato

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Re: USB sound card recommendations
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2018, 08:51:46 AM »

(Thank you Mr. Moderator for unmuzzling me <g>)

Really? Because I'm already using an M-Audio Quattro that was originally $350, albeit ancient (i.e. for XP). Are modern interfaces inherently better?

And I think our mixer is good enough (Allen & Heath GL2400), so I'm not sure why we just sound generally dark, muddy, and flat.

Can someone maybe try listening to the following clip, and suggest what might be the problem?

http://ge.tt/50oBjuo2
Depending on where you are pulling your signal from for the recording, it is likely that it has become over-eq-ed due to needs of the live right. I would suggest returning all the channels eq's to flat and start rebuilding the mix.

I think it is good practice to rezero everything but the dsp periodically to keep from falling into complacent mixing. The dsp should be set by measurement.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

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Luke Geis

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Re: USB sound card recommendations
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2018, 03:58:58 PM »

Well I can say with confidence that a 2 channel mix off the desk will sound dark, muddy and flat unless you really have the time to dial it in. I owned a GL2400 and it is a very nice mixer, but I think it was a bit dark sounding too. Or you could twist that up to say it sounded warm and fuzzy.

The modern A/D to D/A converters are really good at even the cheapest level. They will not color the sound appreciably to the point of degradation. What goes in is essentially what comes out. Better units handle higher sample rates, have more channels and more features, that's really the only major separator.

The link works, but only if you download the song. I think it sounded exactly like I would expect it to for a live take. There was plenty of high end for the mix. Vocal mics tend to sound too full more because of proximity effect, so the denseness of the vocals is exactly what I would expect for dynamic mics. The mix is VOCAL heavy and there are several people panned from left to right, but the guitar drums and everything is mono as far as the mix is concerned. With everything else being so buried in the mix you can't hear the instruments definition, so they sound muted and flat. Dynamics are all over the place too. With little to no compression going on the musicians are not able to lock into one single level. They float around a little and poke through the mix at different points in time. Compression helps lock the instrument into a particular range of volume which helps keep them apparent in the mix. This is what will make it pop so to speak. That pop, is the in your face, I'm here thing you may be looking for? Locking things into a particular dynamic range helps make a mix that you can place everything around in the stereo field. Because the instrument is now always in the mix, you can then EQ it easier for sonic placement. This is what makes a mix sound defined and well blended. When the mix is crawling with too much of any one thing and not nearly enough of another, the mix starts to sound unnatural and muddy as particular instruments take over not only the mix, but the sonic space.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 04:10:22 PM by Luke Geis »
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Joe Kim

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Re: USB sound card recommendations
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2018, 11:57:11 PM »

Thank you for bearing with me. Even though I'm just a keyboardist, after 4 years of making recordings you'd think I would know something. And sorry about the link, I just picked a random file sharing site.

So you'd recommend a new sound card and/or multi-track recorder? Or just accept things as they are? We do have a 4-channel compressor that no one really knows how to use, but sounds like you're talking more about post-processing.

The panning was an attempt to give each channel more clarity/separation. I can see how it would strike an outsider as odd lol.
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Luke Geis

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Re: USB sound card recommendations
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2018, 02:16:45 PM »

The panning is fine and in fact is a great way to carve space for everyone in a mix. Imagine a stack of paper with each piece of paper being a different color and each color representing a different instrument. If you have everything panned to the middle ALL stacks of paper only have one way to go; one atop the other. This is how a mix is built. There is always a piece on the top ( usually vocals ) and then there is always the piece on the bottom.

How do you make each piece be able to pop out of the mix? You pan them around. This makes it possible to see them all. Now you have to make the colors work together. The color represents each instruments sonic space. You can't have all the instruments sound like the color of brown or create the color brown, because then you will end up with a mix full of brown. The colors have to be individual enough to characterize the instrument and when stacked among all the other colors also have to not create a large build up of another color.

Thinking like this will get you pretty far without any form of compression or other audio foolery. As for compression, it is a multi step process. It's just as much a real time tool as much as a post production tool. You can use it on both a per instrument basis and the whole of the mix. The idea behind compression is to make an otherwise high dynamic range instrument and lock it into a more controlled lower dynamic range. This does two things. It increases that instruments average level ( can have a higher RMS level ) and it reduces peaks to a more manageable level. This allows you to place it in the mix and it will have a more consistent apparentness within it. Because its level doesn't vary as much it is always there and locked in to that relative mix level. Compression and limiting takes a long time to master as there is much more to it than simply what was said. There is attack, release, ratio, make up gain and some even have a hold setting. Each aspect changes how the other reacts and it is not an esoteric process. It is not a set and forget tool, and each instrument will require a different approach and setting not only in general, but possibly even on a song for song basis.
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Re: USB sound card recommendations
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2018, 02:16:45 PM »


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