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[Jonathan Goodall]

It's always puzzled me why good singers don't carry their own mic.  Everyone else in the band has spent $ and time getting their sound just so, but the vocalist walks up to whatever is there.
I'm thinking about holding a seminar for vocal students, with a wide variety if vocal mics to try, to help find the one that matches their particular needs.  Record the various choices and pick the best fit.  Then work out any EQ settings to get the last bit.  Hand the mic and EQ request to the sound guy, and they're mostly there with a consistent sound.

One artist I have worked with regularly, purchased their own mic (AKG D7) so they had a good consistent mic to use.  The number of times they have gone to different gig's (not provided by me) and been forced to use the crappy beaten up old 58 (or worse) that was provided has been an eye opener.  They were happy with any of the other band members instruments but would not allow the singer to change out to her mic.

[Tim McCulloch]

One artist I have worked with regularly, purchased their own mic (AKG D7) so they had a good consistent mic to use.  The number of times they have gone to different gig's (not provided by me) and been forced to use the crappy beaten up old 58 (or worse) that was provided has been an eye opener.  They were happy with any of the other band members instruments but would not allow the singer to change out to her mic.

The mic unplugs.  Singer walks up, switches mics and show starts.  Unless in Kiwi-Land the club bouncer stands on stage to stop the singer, how to they "not allow" the mic swap?

"Look, you guys can give this 58 to someone else, but in case you haven't noticed the flu is really bad this year and I'm using my own mic."

[Dave Garoutte]

+1

[Rob Spence]

I've run into quite a few musicians that can't get a good sound out of 1 small amp or a collection of wood/metal and skins What would happen if you let them loose on a large PA??

I guess you get loud bad sound


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[Debbie Dunkley]

I guess you get loud bad sound


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I have a T shirt that say's, " If the band sounds like crap, I make them sound like crap LOUDER"

[frank kayser]

The mic unplugs.  Singer walks up, switches mics and show starts.  Unless in Kiwi-Land the club bouncer stands on stage to stop the singer, how to they "not allow" the mic swap?

"Look, you guys can give this 58 to someone else, but in case you haven't noticed the flu is really bad this year and I'm using my own mic."

I did see a post on this site a while ago where someone was complaining that an artist walked in after he had rung out the monitors with his mic of choice, the venerable SM58.  He acted as if it were a personal affront of some kind to make the request.  Maybe it was timing.


As far as the artist simply unplugging the supplied mic and replacing it with one of their choice can wreak havoc especially if the replacement mic is much more sensitive, or has a much lower gain before feedback.  (I'm telling Tim this? d'OH! Where are my manners!)  Maybe the sound guy has already headed out back to have a smoke... the mic wailing and gnashing of teeth everywhere in sonic range (that does not include the smoking area)


Personally, I always encourage someone to use their own mic - I consider a mic a *very* personal item - almost a personal hygiene item.  I believe completely that one should be careful sharing a mic especially during the flu season. 


Folks usually bring their Beta 58s or some other decent mic.  I put up with what they bring unless defective or absolutely horrible. Mostly it shows that I am offering them some respect as an individual and that tends to start the relationship off on a better foot.  Also it gives me time to adjust rather than react to a possible sonic mess when they change a hot mic.


One advantage of being a low-level-Lounge-member is that I can usually afford to baby the folks a bit, if I choose, and unlike the "A" headliners, these folks that seldom see a sound guy are a little grateful that I made an adjustment just for them.  Repeats actually like to see me.


frank

[Tim McCulloch]

I did see a post on this site a while ago where someone was complaining that an artist walked in after he had rung out the monitors with his mic of choice, the venerable SM58.  He acted as if it were a personal affront of some kind to make the request.  Maybe it was timing.


As far as the artist simply unplugging the supplied mic and replacing it with one of their choice can wreak havoc especially if the replacement mic is much more sensitive, or has a much lower gain before feedback.  (I'm telling Tim this? d'OH! Where are my manners!)  Maybe the sound guy has already headed out back to have a smoke... the mic wailing and gnashing of teeth everywhere in sonic range (that does not include the smoking area)


Personally, I always encourage someone to use their own mic - I consider a mic a *very* personal item - almost a personal hygiene item.  I believe completely that one should be careful sharing a mic especially during the flu season. 


Folks usually bring their Beta 58s or some other decent mic.  I put up with what they bring unless defective or absolutely horrible. Mostly it shows that I am offering them some respect as an individual and that tends to start the relationship off on a better foot.  Also it gives me time to adjust rather than react to a possible sonic mess when they change a hot mic.


One advantage of being a low-level-Lounge-member is that I can usually afford to baby the folks a bit, if I choose, and unlike the "A" headliners, these folks that seldom see a sound guy are a little grateful that I made an adjustment just for them.  Repeats actually like to see me.


frank

The real fun is watching the non-action after swapping the 58 for an SM86... because the 86 needs phantom power.

The point really is that in Jonathan's post either the soundperson is an asshole or perhaps there is no soundperson and everything is preset and left in place or perhaps the venue has an endorsement gig with a particular brand...  no matter what, if a singer wants to use his/her personal mic I'm going to give it a tryout.  If it's not going to work I'll offer to freshly sanitize an SM58 for them but I'll try their mic first.  IF this was in a HoW I can see where a drastic change in mics could/would affect Aviom stem mixes as well.

I had a festival act that wanted to use the vocalist's Neumann KMS105, and because I use SM86 on that stage it was fairly easy for my monitor tech and was fine for FOH.  Might not have been as easy a swap on stages wrung out for SM58s.

Some bands/singers want stupid shit, others just want to use their own mics.  Give me the latter folks every time.

[Dave Garoutte]

When I setup for a female singer with a nice voice, I'll swap to one of my own nicer mics;  MD441, PR35, e945.
It's really fun when they can hear the difference in the monitors (and the PA).

[Jonathan Goodall]

The real fun is watching the non-action after swapping the 58 for an SM86... because the 86 needs phantom power.

The point really is that in Jonathan's post either the soundperson is an asshole or perhaps there is no soundperson and everything is preset and left in place or perhaps the venue has an endorsement gig with a particular brand...  no matter what, if a singer wants to use his/her personal mic I'm going to give it a tryout.  If it's not going to work I'll offer to freshly sanitize an SM58 for them but I'll try their mic first.  IF this was in a HoW I can see where a drastic change in mics could/would affect Aviom stem mixes as well.

I had a festival act that wanted to use the vocalist's Neumann KMS105, and because I use SM86 on that stage it was fairly easy for my monitor tech and was fine for FOH.  Might not have been as easy a swap on stages wrung out for SM58s.

Some bands/singers want stupid shit, others just want to use their own mics.  Give me the latter folks every time.

She is a very polite young woman and always asks before attempting to get the mic changed (partly my fault as I have always told her to check before unplugging anything in case it's live).
It's been a bit of both, some "preset-and-left" don't change anything situations, but a number of the sound person not being bothered to have to change anything ( and unfortunately for some  , a condesending attitude of "you're just a young girl and i know best").

[Luke Geis]

It is in my experience the lowest common denominator. I was once a young fledgling in a band and I too bought my own PA. For two reasons.

1. I didn't even consider the fact that there was likely a hungry soundguy that would provide all my sound needs at a price I could probably afford.

2. I wanted a nice PA that I could use at will without ever having to worry about kludging one together or renting at a cost beyond my means.

I bought my first PA to the tune of about $3000 smackers! This got me two dual 15" mains, two 12" monitors and 2 amplifiers along with DSP for the mains and EQ for the monitors. I got the mixer as a gift for Christmas! The band members each bought their own respective mic needs. If I could have gotten a sound guy to provide sound for all the shows I had done at what many seem to be doing sound for these days, it would have provided me with sound for 20 shows, which incidentally is about the number of shows we played in the two years we were around where we actually needed a PA system. About half to 2/3rds of our shows had venue sound. I could have about broke even and provided someone else with a slight income. As it turns out though, it was a good choice on my part because that PA eventually made my career as a soundguy become possible.

I think most bands simply have a need, but not much money, and buying a cheap PA is the cheapest way to get the basic needs tended to. I am at a point where I don't do charity for bands anymore simply due to the lack of respect, appreciation and amounts of beer and fluids being poured on my stuff. When bands ask how much I cost they either laugh, or go holy hell, maybe when we are actual rockstars we can afford you. I don't want to be that way, but most just don't realize the amount of money and energy I have put into my job. The key word being job. We do this for a living and most simply think that because Henry the Qwik-E-Mart guy does it for $150 on the weekends, why wouldn't We....... Bands just don't realize how that extra $1,000 we spent per speaker makes their show and our lives that much better. They get what they need form a $300 fisher price toy that we cringe about when we hear the name and model.

Then there is the golden ear mentality...... There are a lot of band members who think their idea of the best sound ever is what they think it is. They seem to be able to get that sound from whatever they end up getting because no one could possibly know better. They also do sound for other bands on occasion, so they definitely know everything....... How do you convince someone who has a few bad experiences with others much like them that you are better and worth the cost? Their experience and belief in their abilities keep them from affording a real sound guy, so they buy more stuff as needed. There is always the band member with more experience than the sound guy.

The perspective is the biggest reason. Bands all pretty much start at the bottom with little to nothing. So they start their experience with sound with others that are also at the bottom of the soundguy scale. A few bad experiences later and a trend starts to set in. A need for gear comes along and they, with their golden ear mentality, buy PA gear that will end all their problems. Low and behold it does, because they make it work for them. They don't need us, we are an expense that can't possibly make their lives any better. Until the one day they end up at a gig with a real sound guy and a real PA. That is when you hear the ubiquitous " This is the best sound we ever had "....... It starts to sell them on our craft, but only fuels the fire for them to get better gear, because they still have the golden ear and they can do it themselves........

It isn't until they too have done enough shows for others that they start to realize its not us, it actually is them that cause most of their issues. It is just the attitude we have that determines how a bad situation can be made better, or worse. If we are happy, they become happier even if they are getting a shitty deal. Our attitudes are what sells our craft. Bands love someone who is happy to help no matter what. In the end we are nothing more than problem solvers. Part of our problem solving is how to make bands want to afford us instead of buying more crap that they won't make money off of.  We sell good experiences in short. We are also a lot like a tattoo; good ones aren't cheap and cheap ones aren't good.

[ProSoundWeb Community]