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subs with 8" tops to save money

0 (0%)

subs with 10" tops to save money

2 (13.3%)

subs with 12" tops

13 (86.7%)

subs with 15" tops

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 15

[Joseph Amodeo]

Ive got a real zinger for yas...

would it be possible... or a big deal to pair an RCF 312 mkii with an mkiii

i have found an EXTREMELY good price on each of them seperately...

and they are 12" so its pretty much a no brainer based on the the endless discussions had going around this issue so far...

smooth and undistorted highs and mids at high volumes,
decent bass without a sub, even better with a sub...
RCF build quality...


would the mismatch of mk2 and mk3 be a problem??? the sooner the answer the better

[Tim McCulloch]

@ Joseph-

Just a couple of thoughts, and regarding pricing versus value my observations are USA-centric.  Things are probably different elsewhere in the world.

First - within a given price bracket most competing products are more similar than they are different.  Some brands or manufacturers may spend the budget money differently from others but they're all working with similar total expenditures to bring a product to market.  From cheap to Very Nice, it's the same.

Second - small, incremental moves in greater power or 10 inch or 12 inch cones when using subs... bah, humbug.  The 3dB increase in sound pressure that is usually noticed by perceptive listeners is *double* the power.  The difference between 800 Watts and 1000 Watts might be a big bunch of money for a result that will be inaudible.  If a sub is crossed at 100Hz to make things play nicer with the 10 inch top, fine.  The Sound Nanny will not slap your hand unless you blow up something.  Trust me.

Third - buying in on the cheap with the best of intentions to improve or replace the low end gear results in having a whole lot of low end gear and recovering almost no value when it comes time to buy the gear you should have started with.

This leads us to a couple of these gems of wisdom that are from the prehistoric days of the Live Audio Board:

1.  The wrong piece of gear at the right price is still the wrong piece of gear.

2.  Buy once, cry once.

Ultimately what level of work do you want to be doing 2 years from now?  That's probably where you should be aiming your "ideal" purchasing targets and then working your way down-scale as necessary, but understanding what you're giving up for spending less.

I strongly suggest that you stay with 1 manufacturer and within the same model line for sub and tops.  Doing so means all of the physics and electronic thinking has been done for you, and reasonably good results should be readily achievable.

[Joseph Amodeo]

@ Joseph-

Just a couple of thoughts, and regarding pricing versus value my observations are USA-centric.  Things are probably different elsewhere in the world.

First - within a given price bracket most competing products are more similar than they are different.  Some brands or manufacturers may spend the budget money differently from others but they're all working with similar total expenditures to bring a product to market.  From cheap to Very Nice, it's the same.

Second - small, incremental moves in greater power or 10 inch or 12 inch cones when using subs... bah, humbug.  The 3dB increase in sound pressure that is usually noticed by perceptive listeners is *double* the power.  The difference between 800 Watts and 1000 Watts might be a big bunch of money for a result that will be inaudible.  If a sub is crossed at 100Hz to make things play nicer with the 10 inch top, fine.  The Sound Nanny will not slap your hand unless you blow up something.  Trust me.

Third - buying in on the cheap with the best of intentions to improve or replace the low end gear results in having a whole lot of low end gear and recovering almost no value when it comes time to buy the gear you should have started with.

This leads us to a couple of these gems of wisdom that are from the prehistoric days of the Live Audio Board:

1.  The wrong piece of gear at the right price is still the wrong piece of gear.

2.  Buy once, cry once.

Ultimately what level of work do you want to be doing 2 years from now?  That's probably where you should be aiming your "ideal" purchasing targets and then working your way down-scale as necessary, but understanding what you're giving up for spending less.

I strongly suggest that you stay with 1 manufacturer and within the same model line for sub and tops.  Doing so means all of the physics and electronic thinking has been done for you, and reasonably good results should be readily achievable.

wait a minute?.... things can blow up??? thats the whole reason im avoiding passive setups... jeez

[Chris Grimshaw]

wait a minute?.... things can blow up??? thats the whole reason im avoiding passive setups... jeez

Modern active speakers are difficult to blow up.
I did some testing on one where if you fed it high-power sine tones, it'd do it for a couple of seconds and then drop the power level right down - thermal protection for the driver and amplifier. There was also peak limiting and excursion limiting. Pretty difficult to kill, even if you really try.
Not impossible, though.

Chris

[Joseph Amodeo]

@ Joseph-

Just a couple of thoughts, and regarding pricing versus value my observations are USA-centric.  Things are probably different elsewhere in the world.

First - within a given price bracket most competing products are more similar than they are different.  Some brands or manufacturers may spend the budget money differently from others but they're all working with similar total expenditures to bring a product to market.  From cheap to Very Nice, it's the same.

Second - small, incremental moves in greater power or 10 inch or 12 inch cones when using subs... bah, humbug.  The 3dB increase in sound pressure that is usually noticed by perceptive listeners is *double* the power.  The difference between 800 Watts and 1000 Watts might be a big bunch of money for a result that will be inaudible.  If a sub is crossed at 100Hz to make things play nicer with the 10 inch top, fine.  The Sound Nanny will not slap your hand unless you blow up something.  Trust me.

Third - buying in on the cheap with the best of intentions to improve or replace the low end gear results in having a whole lot of low end gear and recovering almost no value when it comes time to buy the gear you should have started with.

This leads us to a couple of these gems of wisdom that are from the prehistoric days of the Live Audio Board:

1.  The wrong piece of gear at the right price is still the wrong piece of gear.

2.  Buy once, cry once.

Ultimately what level of work do you want to be doing 2 years from now?  That's probably where you should be aiming your "ideal" purchasing targets and then working your way down-scale as necessary, but understanding what you're giving up for spending less.

I strongly suggest that you stay with 1 manufacturer and within the same model line for sub and tops.  Doing so means all of the physics and electronic thinking has been done for you, and reasonably good results should be readily achievable.

Part of what im thinking is that RCF 3 series... isnt "the wrong gear" its completely useful for anything i would be doing and can definitely say its at least a step above TRULY crappy stuff like behringer eurolives or grabbing some altos or mackie thumps for 100-200 bucks each...


All this talk about blowing up active speakers... while yes unlikely... was related to the idea that crossing over a sub to handle up to 100hz... was somehow incorrect?? and would be necessary when paired with 10" tops??? but somehow the extra 2 inches and 200 watts would be giving you an inaudible increase in highs and mids volume...

I think im getting it.... when using a sub.... 10 inch tops... will do OK with highs and mid... VOLUME WISE... and great CLARITY WISE... but 12 inch highs are TECHNICALLY considered better VOLUME WISE... but not CLARITY WISE...

HOWEVER...its a basically inaudible increase

AGAIN HOWEVER... this doesnt account for the nasally weak low-mids on 10" tops which means the sub will have to cover more frequency...  which is apparently not a big deal??? but not the best??? im not really clear on how to properly setup a sub and crossover stuff...

[Paul G. OBrien]

but somehow the extra 2 inches and 200 watts would be giving you an inaudible increase in highs and mids volume...

HOWEVER...its a basically inaudible increase

You keep saying "inaudible" and i don't understand why. I guarantee you the differences here are not inaudible, if they were nobody would have made any of the suggestions they did and no manufacturer would make more than 1 model of speaker.

im not really clear on how to properly setup a sub and crossover stuff...

That is why you let the engineers that design speaker systems do it for you and buy the matching sub from the same manufacturer.

[Tim McCulloch]

Part of what im thinking is that RCF 3 series... isnt "the wrong gear" its completely useful for anything i would be doing and can definitely say its at least a step above TRULY crappy stuff like behringer eurolives or grabbing some altos or mackie thumps for 100-200 bucks each...


All this talk about blowing up active speakers... while yes unlikely... was related to the idea that crossing over a sub to handle up to 100hz... was somehow incorrect?? and would be necessary when paired with 10" tops??? but somehow the extra 2 inches and 200 watts would be giving you an inaudible increase in highs and mids volume...

I think im getting it.... when using a sub.... 10 inch tops... will do OK with highs and mid... VOLUME WISE... and great CLARITY WISE... but 12 inch highs are TECHNICALLY considered better VOLUME WISE... but not CLARITY WISE...

HOWEVER...its a basically inaudible increase

AGAIN HOWEVER... this doesnt account for the nasally weak low-mids on 10" tops which means the sub will have to cover more frequency...  which is apparently not a big deal??? but not the best??? im not really clear on how to properly setup a sub and crossover stuff...

Almost anything RCF will be better than the Mackie Thumps, on that we can certainly agree.

I think you're trying to characterize or label some kind of difference between various sizes of speakers, or create attributes to allow you to make a rational decisions.

Here's my observation - they sound different because they *are* different.  Within a model line the manufacturers tend to "voice" the models in a fairly uniform way but there are inevitable changes.  Which is best?  That's sooooo subjective; what pleases me might leave you unimpressed or be unsuitable for your needs.

Another observation:  within the same model line and with subs I don't think it matters much between 10" and 12". Buying 15" gives you some flexibility of operation without or with subs but you pay more money and have a size/weight increase, too.

Your comment about "nasally weak low mids" makes me wonder what program material you are using.  What most people think of as "warm" tends to be in the 150-250Hz area.  "Warm" is well within the operating pass band of almost any 8" or 10" system, depending on how much output you need.  It's possible that there are other factor at play...

That brings me to my final point - almost any competent system can be user-voiced to sound a particular way, but some voicing choices may create an over all limit to system output (power compression, transducer thermal limiting, over-excursion limiting, amp clipping).  That means that while manufacturers try to make their systems abuse-resistant it IS possible to damage self-powered systems.

[George Friedman-Jimenez]

I have owned the RCF310 and it is very smiley-faced EQ - hyped in the bass and highs. OK standalone for a small gathering, but I won't use it for FOH or even monitors unless I have no other choice. Nice and light though, and solidly built.
I also have owned and much prefer the DXR10>EV ETX10P>JBL PRX612M in that order. None of them match the clarity of my trusty EV QRX112/75s but those are much heavier and the DXR10s come the closest in sound quality.
From what you are saying, I would recommend the DXR10s with subs. Much better sound quality at working SPLs than the RCF 310, not that much heavier, bigger or more expensive.

[Steve M Smith]

i have found an EXTREMELY good price on each of them seperately...

I am amazed at the number of people on eBay selling just one speaker.  It seems more common than pairs.  Why?!!


Steve.

[Tim McCulloch]

I am amazed at the number of people on eBay selling just one speaker.  It seems more common than pairs.  Why?!!


Steve.

The seller ordered 1 unit for demonstration and didn't like it or these are dealers posing as individual sellers to avoid the MAP Police.

[ProSoundWeb Community]