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Author Topic: Setting levels on wireless receivers  (Read 1047 times)

Thomas Le

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Setting levels on wireless receivers
« on: February 22, 2018, 10:22:01 am »

On Shure/Sennheiser analog wireless (specifically ULX-P and EW100G3), how are you running your levels on your receivers? This is for handheld lead vocals.
 
  • On Shure ULX-P do you choose Mic or Line switch?
  • On EW100G3 do you run at zero or max +18 (I think)?
 
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William Schnake

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Re: Setting levels on wireless receivers
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2018, 10:33:42 am »

On Shure/Sennheiser analog wireless (specifically ULX-P and EW100G3), how are you running your levels on your receivers? This is for handheld lead vocals.
 
  • On Shure ULX-P do you choose Mic or Line switch?
  • On EW100G3 do you run at zero or max +18 (I think)?

We own 18 ULX/P and this is a two part answer.  First part, we set the receiver output to 100% all the way to the right.  Second part: on the input ladder of the receiver I want the level to just hit the first amber light.  This is set with me literally screaming in to the mic.  This handles any loud singer and keeps the unit from overloading.  You can turn up the transmitter gain on the mic in order to get this ratio correct.

Good Luck.

Bill
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Thomas Le

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Re: Setting levels on wireless receivers
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2018, 10:52:10 am »

We own 18 ULX/P and this is a two part answer.  First part, we set the receiver output to 100% all the way to the right.  Second part: on the input ladder of the receiver I want the level to just hit the first amber light.  This is set with me literally screaming in to the mic.  This handles any loud singer and keeps the unit from overloading.  You can turn up the transmitter gain on the mic in order to get this ratio correct.

Good Luck.

Bill

Bill,

Do you recall what you have it switched to on the rear of the receiver?

Thanks!
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Keith Broughton

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Re: Setting levels on wireless receivers
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2018, 11:20:34 am »

On Shure/Sennheiser analog wireless (specifically ULX-P and EW100G3), how are you running your levels on your receivers? This is for handheld lead vocals.
 
  • On Shure ULX-P do you choose Mic or Line switch?
  • On EW100G3 do you run at zero or max +18 (I think)?

On the Shure I set to 'mic"
On Sennheiser I set to "0"
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William Schnake

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Re: Setting levels on wireless receivers
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2018, 12:19:59 pm »

Bill,

Do you recall what you have it switched to on the rear of the receiver?


Ours are set to 'MIC' on the rear panel.

Bill
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Setting levels on wireless receivers
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2018, 01:03:56 pm »

Bill,

Do you recall what you have it switched to on the rear of the receiver?

Thanks!

Installations and broadcast tend to favor using Line Level with analog output options but the real answer is "whatever works best with the device that accepts the receiver's output."

There is a Lounge post where the OP had issues with mixer input channel overload from a screaming preacher, transmitter gain too high, and receiver set on Line.
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Joris Jans2

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Re: Setting levels on wireless receivers
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2018, 06:42:16 am »

On Shure/Sennheiser analog wireless (specifically ULX-P and EW100G3), how are you running your levels on your receivers? This is for handheld lead vocals.
 
  • On Shure ULX-P do you choose Mic or Line switch?
  • On EW100G3 do you run at zero or max +18 (I think)?

i set my EW100G3 to 0dB and let the preamp of my mixing desk amplify it, sound better to my ears
« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 06:44:41 am by Joris Jans2 »
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Setting levels on wireless receivers
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2018, 11:24:31 am »

i set my EW100G3 to 0dB and let the preamp of my mixing desk amplify it, sound better to my ears

I guess you like the sound of 2 preamps back to back. The signal is already at line level inside the receiver. When you switch it to mic you are padding it down to mic level so you can ship it at mic level to the console so you can amplify it back up to where it was.

I set the receiver output at line.

Mac
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Christian Ekren

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Re: Setting levels on wireless receivers
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2018, 12:17:17 pm »

I guess you like the sound of 2 preamps back to back. The signal is already at line level inside the receiver. When you switch it to mic you are padding it down to mic level so you can ship it at mic level to the console so you can amplify it back up to where it was.

I set the receiver output at line.

Mac

Potentially dumb question, but for the G3 receivers, what would "line-level" be for the AF-out? +18dB would appear to be amplifying the signal out of the receiver compared to 0dB - or is the entire AF-out setting better thought of as adjustable attenuation from the "unaltered line-level" output level of +18dB?
« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 12:30:28 pm by Christian Ekren »
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Joris Jans2

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Re: Setting levels on wireless receivers
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2018, 03:54:53 pm »

I guess you like the sound of 2 preamps back to back. The signal is already at line level inside the receiver. When you switch it to mic you are padding it down to mic level so you can ship it at mic level to the console so you can amplify it back up to where it was.

I set the receiver output at line.

Mac
there's no such thing as "line" or "mic" (switch) on the G3 sennheiser receivers, you can set the output level per 3dB. i don't see the point of +18dB boost on the receiver & then padding -18 dB on the mixing desk....

the sennheiser manual talks about an maximum output level of +18dBu max, which is 14dB higher then "nominal" line level output

« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 04:06:02 pm by Joris Jans2 »
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Setting levels on wireless receivers
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2018, 04:23:14 pm »

there's no such thing as "line" or "mic" (switch) on the G3 sennheiser receivers, you can set the output level per 3dB. i don't see the point of +18dB boost on the receiver & then padding -18 dB on the mixing desk....

+18dB relative to what? dB is an expression of a ratio between 2 levels. If it says +18dBV it is relative to 1 volt, dBu is relative to .775 volts. Without a suffix it needs to have an explanation of what it is relative to in order to have any meaning.

I would be useful to know what is inside the G3 receiver. Is it an amplifier, or is it padding the signal to get it down to the lower level? In the world of digital signal transport where the mic pre is at the stage it may be less important to run higher levels between the receiver and the mic pre, but with long analog snakes between the receiver and mic pre you probably want to run as high a level as possible to avoid additional induced noise in the signal.

If running the receiver at +18whatever causes you to need to pad your console input 18dB then don't do that, but if running it at the lowest level means you need 35dB of gain to get good level, then you need to run a higher level.

Mac
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Keith Broughton

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Re: Setting levels on wireless receivers
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2018, 05:21:35 pm »

but if running it at the lowest level means you need 35dB of gain to get good level, then you need to run a higher level.

Mac
If the output is a bit noisy, this is helpful.
However, I often use around 35db of input gain on a wired dialogue (eg:lectern)mic with no ill effects.
There are cases to be made for either setting.
As someone here often points out..."it depends" ;)
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Setting levels on wireless receivers
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2018, 06:10:50 pm »

If the output is a bit noisy, this is helpful.
However, I often use around 35db of input gain on a wired dialogue (eg:lectern)mic with no ill effects.
There are cases to be made for either setting.
As someone here often points out..."it depends" ;)

I still believe best practices call for planning for worst case. Almost all the inputs I deal with are line level. All RF mics and all playback. Shure ULX-D receivers are usually at about 5-10dB of gain at the console. Playback is often at -6dB on a CL5. These days a wired lectern mic is most likely a BU, and most likely the noisiest channel in the console. When I relied on the lectern mic all the time I carried 2 Symetrix 2ch mic pres that got mounted inside the lectern to add 20dB of gain and phantom power before the mic got plugged into the 100' subsnake that went to the 350' main snake. Now the mic pres are backstage and there is a lot less cable involved, plus the lectern mic rarely gets used. Audience reaction mics are also at mic level, but are at fairly low levels unless there is a lot of applause.

Mac
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brian maddox

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Re: Setting levels on wireless receivers
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2018, 07:03:06 pm »

I guess you like the sound of 2 preamps back to back. The signal is already at line level inside the receiver. When you switch it to mic you are padding it down to mic level so you can ship it at mic level to the console so you can amplify it back up to where it was.

I set the receiver output at line.

Mac

^^this

Only exception is if you are feeding some weird ancient mixer that only takes mic level signals as inputs.  But then you've got bigger issues...
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Keith Broughton

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Re: Setting levels on wireless receivers
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2018, 08:48:34 am »

I still believe best practices call for planning for worst case. I carried 2 Symetrix 2ch mic pres that got mounted inside the lectern to add 20dB of gain and phantom power before the mic got plugged into the 100' subsnake that went to the 350' main snake. Now the mic pres are backstage and there is a lot less cable involved, plus the lectern mic rarely gets used.

Mac
You make a good point and I have used a similar setup for looooong cable runs.
In your application, it sounds like line  is the most common source level and I would probably do what you are doing.
That may not be the case in something like a live orchestra or band application.
I think the OP was looking for a "what is better" and really, it depends on the application.
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