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Author Topic: another speaker question  (Read 12030 times)

Nathan Riddle

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Re: another speaker question
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2018, 08:45:13 AM »

Ken,

I'm having a hard time believing your measurements. 50ft under the balcony?

David,

My main concern with a center cluster is the preaching platform extension.

Two speakers is a good idea to create a 'gap' for the center extension where the preacher preaches, but getting the seam in the center smooth might be a little difficult.
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David Allred

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Re: another speaker question
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2018, 12:07:48 PM »

Ken,

I'm having a hard time believing your measurements. 50ft under the balcony?


I think he is saying that front to rear is 50' (including under the balcony), then the balcony continues above another 15' (65' total).
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Nathan Riddle

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Re: another speaker question
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2018, 12:13:47 PM »

Here is a side shot. I managed to get over there again today. I did determine the speaker wire is adequate to do the job.  The main amp is a Behringer model EPQ2000.

Thanks in advance for your opinions.

Ken

How can you possibly determine if the speaker wire and main amp is adequate without knowing the spl requirment & efficiency characteristics of the speaker which you don't know is being installed until you model the room?

This is a step by step process you can't just jump to the end.

I think he is saying that front to rear is 50' (including under the balcony), then the balcony continues above another 15' (65' total).

 ??? Well I totally did NOT get that.

Ken can you clarify the dimensions? Perhaps do some napkin drawings? (publisher/powerpoint/word preferred :P )
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David Allred

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Re: another speaker question
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2018, 01:22:38 PM »

??? Well I totally did NOT get that.



It was a guess that kind of matched what the last pic showed.  :)
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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: another speaker question
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2018, 12:47:35 AM »

As for the structural engineering, that's covered by volunteer effort (We live in a town with many engineers.)
Electrical is also covered with volunteers (That's me and I think the wiring is already in place anyway, I know for sure the raceway is.).

I just want to point out that professional engineering and installation is about more than just doing it right.

For an overhead speaker installation in a facility that is open to the public, liability is a HUGE issue.

If you can get professionals to do this, who can use their own professional certifications and liability insurance, you will be far better covered if a failure occurs that results in injury.

If you can get professionals to donate their services while retaining responsibility, that's great. (Some may require that a contract be signed; perhaps they can be paid by the church and donate back their fee. That's often the cleanest way to properly handle liability.)

Without that professional level of reassurance, your church's own liability insurance carrier might seek renumeration from the individuals responsible for the installation. That can financially ruin not just the church, it can ruin individual members. You do NOT want that on the collective conscience of the congregation.

(And, for what it's worth, $5,000 would probably cover professional audio design, engineered rigging design, and installation by a certified rigger, before you spend any money on equipment and materials. But that's just a guess.)
« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 12:53:21 AM by Jonathan Johnson »
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Ken Cross

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Re: another speaker question
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2018, 10:01:41 AM »

How can you possibly determine if the speaker wire and main amp is adequate without knowing the spl requirment & efficiency characteristics of the speaker which you don't know is being installed until you model the room?

This is a step by step process you can't just jump to the end.

 ??? Well I totally did NOT get that.

Ken can you clarify the dimensions? Perhaps do some napkin drawings? (publisher/powerpoint/word preferred :P )

Sorry for the slow response. I've been in the mountains with no cell signal coverage.
I took the room dimensions off a drawing. I realize I don't have hard numbers for the balcony because it extends beyond the back wall below. The seating on the balcony, however, doesn't extend clear to the back.

I don't know if the wiring or amplifier are adequate, but it looked like the speaker wiring was heavy (no I didn't measure AWG  and hadn't planned to until I figure out what I actually need). I'm told the amplifier has more power than they need. I didn't bother listening to what they have now because I'm told both existing speakers are bad and I'd need scaffolding to actually reach them.

I don't know the arrangement with structural engineering, but I'm told it won't be a problem. If needed I do have my own resources.

Ken 
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lindsay Dean

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Re: another speaker question
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2018, 02:09:23 PM »

Remember also that even frequency dispersion patterns on loudspeakers are dependant on the size and design of the horn.
 
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Ken Cross

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Re: another speaker question
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2018, 11:41:28 AM »

I've been working with a sales guy at CCI solutions and he's recommending not using a speaker cluster in the center, but adding 3 new speakers one at the center of each seating section with one amp output to the center and the other amp output to the outboard speakers in parallel. I'm wondering what that would do to the apparent presenter position as the actual presenter would be in the center of the room and the sound source would be way off center. His thoughts are to eliminate some large base nodes. I should have added using 12-inch speakers because they already have installed subs in place.

Has anyone tried this?

Ken
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Robert Weaver

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Re: another speaker question
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2018, 05:05:00 PM »

I've been working with a sales guy at CCI solutions and he's recommending not using a speaker cluster in the center, but adding 3 new speakers one at the center of each seating section with one amp output to the center and the other amp output to the outboard speakers in parallel. I'm wondering what that would do to the apparent presenter position as the actual presenter would be in the center of the room and the sound source would be way off center. His thoughts are to eliminate some large base nodes. I should have added using 12-inch speakers because they already have installed subs in place.

Has anyone tried this?

Ken

My church is setup up with 4 Renkus Heinz CFX121s with one for each section.  Our stage sits in the corner and all the rows are different lengths due to the auditorium being slightly rectangular.  All the lobes we placed in the aisles. 
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Ken Cross

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Re: another speaker question
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2018, 11:11:16 AM »

My church is setup up with 4 Renkus Heinz CFX121s with one for each section.  Our stage sits in the corner and all the rows are different lengths due to the auditorium being slightly rectangular.  All the lobes we placed in the aisles.

Are you satisfied with the sound source location relative to the position of the presenters?

Ken
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: another speaker question
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2018, 11:11:16 AM »


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