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[Andrew Broughton]

So...

When doing coordination with WWB, on clicking the Calculate button, it comes up with a different set of frequencies each time it is clicked (I mean multiple times, same scans, same equipment) Why? Is there really no "best" solution? What are the next solutions that it comes up with every time you click Calculate? Are they all equally valid? Even if they are, why are does each click come up with a different solution than the first click?

[Mac Kerr]

So...

When doing coordination with WWB, on clicking the Calculate button, it comes up with a different set of frequencies each time it is clicked (I mean multiple times, same scans, same equipment) Why? Is there really no "best" solution? What are the next solutions that it comes up with every time you click Calculate? Are they all equally valid? Even if they are, why are does each click come up with a different solution than the first click?

All solutions are equally valid. There may be lots of combinations of frequencies that will meet the criteria you set vis a vis the RF specs you are asking it to consider.

The beginning frequency is probably chosen by random number and the rest based on what works with that and the pre-existing frequencies. Each click starts a new run that is based on a different starting point.

Each gives you as many possible frequencies as will work with the initial conditions.

Mac

[Andrew Broughton]

Understood. I notice that sometimes it will pick frequencies even in noisy ranges and if I click multiple times, I can get a solution that stays out of that range. I guess what I can do is lower the exclusion threshold, but I don't want that to be at the expense of increased IM because I'm giving it less range to work with...

[Mac Kerr]

Understood. I notice that sometimes it will pick frequencies even in noisy ranges and if I click multiple times, I can get a solution that stays out of that range. I guess what I can do is lower the exclusion threshold, but I don't want that to be at the expense of increased IM because I'm giving it less range to work with...

The software doesn't "pick" anything, that part is up to the user. The software just gives you a selection of frequencies that meet the criteria you set. That criteria includes which IM products to solve for, 2TX 3rds, 2TX 5ths, 3 TX 3rds etc. It also includes what spacing and signal bandwidth is in the calculation. In IAS these are all pretty accessible, I am not a WWB user so I don't how much you can edit these parameters beyond "more robust" or "less robust".

After doing a scan you have a better idea about what are clearer parts of the spectrum and you can pick frequencies in those clearer bands. AFAIK none of the popular software makes any judgement about noise floor other than above or below a threshold. Just below the threshold will be the same as way below the threshold.

Mac

[John Sulek]

Understood. I notice that sometimes it will pick frequencies even in noisy ranges and if I click multiple times, I can get a solution that stays out of that range. I guess what I can do is lower the exclusion threshold, but I don't want that to be at the expense of increased IM because I'm giving it less range to work with...

You can always go into the TV stations section and turn on a DTV channel for any spectrum you think has a high noise floor, thus excluding your coordinated frequencies from that 6MHz chunk.

AFAIK raising or lowering the exclusion threshold would only result in increased IM if you lowered it to a point where the software is ignoring carriers and rf spurs that are present in the imported scan.

You could temporarily raise this threshold to force your results into very noise free spectrum. My apologies if I'm misreading your intent.

[Andrew Broughton]

Gotcha. Thanks for that explanation.

[Paul McDermott]

Gotcha. Thanks for that explanation.

In WWB6 there is a feature called Inclusion Groups. This feature enables you to assign devices to a group and define the range you want frequencies selected from and what order you would like groups to be calculated.

For example: I have 8 channels of Shure UHF-R and 8 Channels of Sennheiser IEMG3's

I want to achieve three things with my inclusion groups
1. I want to put all my devices in clean frequency ranges
2. Since Sennheiser G Band, and Shure J5 Band overlap a want to separate the mics from the IEM's
3. I want to have WWB calculate the IEM's first

I create two inclusion groups. The group for the IEMs I only allow it to pick frequencies in TV channel 32, and in the group for J5's I allow frequencies in TV channels 40 and 41. Then in the list of inclusion groups I put the IEM Group before the Microphone group so that it calculates the IEM frequencies first. I set the IEM to more frequencies so I can cram them in one channel and I press calculate and the magic happens. All my frequencies are in the ranges that I want them.

Here is a like to a youtube video from Shure that explains Inclusions groups.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye7xMRlcIss

I hope this helps.

[John Sulek]

In WWB6 there is a feature called Inclusion Groups. This feature enables you to assign devices to a group and define the range you want frequencies selected from and what order you would like groups to be calculated.

For example: I have 8 channels of Shure UHF-R and 8 Channels of Sennheiser IEMG3's

I want to achieve three things with my inclusion groups
1. I want to put all my devices in clean frequency ranges
2. Since Sennheiser G Band, and Shure J5 Band overlap a want to separate the mics from the IEM's
3. I want to have WWB calculate the IEM's first

I create two inclusion groups. The group for the IEMs I only allow it to pick frequencies in TV channel 32, and in the group for J5's I allow frequencies in TV channels 40 and 41. Then in the list of inclusion groups I put the IEM Group before the Microphone group so that it calculates the IEM frequencies first. I set the IEM to more frequencies so I can cram them in one channel and I press calculate and the magic happens. All my frequencies are in the ranges that I want them.

Here is a like to a youtube video from Shure that explains Inclusions groups.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye7xMRlcIss

I hope this helps.

Thanks for the info. Been a while since i used WWB regularly.
I would be careful about using the more frequencies option for iem transmit especially if an active combiner is involved. You usually want to calculate those freqs with all the IM parameters set conservatively. Getting more freqs involves turning off the 2tx 5ths, 3tx 3rds, or both.

[Keith Broughton]

Thanks for the info. Been a while since i used WWB regularly.
I would be careful about using the more frequencies option for iem transmit especially if an active combiner is involved. You usually want to calculate those freqs with all the IM parameters set conservatively. Getting more freqs involves turning off the 2tx 5ths, 3tx 3rds, or both.

Good to know John.
BTW.. could you contact me vi email?
[email protected]

[Dan Mortensen]

Just to know who is talking here, are Keith and Andrew the same person but different accounts?

Both are in Canada, but so are a lot of other people...

Sorry if everyone but me knows the answer.

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