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Author Topic: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....  (Read 3593 times)

Richens Lance

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Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2018, 07:57:39 pm »

I will start by saying that not all units here are in the same class of speaker. That may be obvious. However the specs will tell you what you desire to know, even if the marketers and manufacturers don't want you to know it.

Typically you do not get LOUD & LOW in the same sentence. So the loudest sub in this particular group is also likely the not the one that gets the lowest. So what are your goals? If it is simply loud, then get the one with the loudest spec. The next question is at what frequency is that spec derived from?

I own the SRX-818's and I can say with authority that they are not kidding around. They are a serious sub that sound much as the specs suggest and despite the lower wattage, have plenty of oomph. The VRX is no slouch either. Its spec is measured in whole space, so you can expect another 6db in potential output for a half space calculation. This brings it up to 132db, but in my experience it has a bit more under the hood than the specs suggest. A pair of them are very much a formidable beast and 4 of them definitely tell the world whats up for appropriate gigs / venues.

The QSC is also very loud, but I am not a fan of it. There is just a sound characteristic to it that I do not like. It is not exactly a one note wonder, but it pretty much is. I just don't care for this model. It will put out some thump though.

The specs to the RCF show that it should be in theory be a one note wonder. The real world opinion of them is a little different. I have not used one. RCF is in the business of making real gear and I would expect that the specs are true enough to be relied upon. It is likely not the loudest, but it will sound good and perform as expected.

So lets hone in on your needs. I am in the camp / belief that 3db is not a deal breaker, nor even a real factor to consider when looking at two units that have slightly different design goals. If one is designed to go lower, you can expect that it will have less output. Wattage is NOT a true consideration at all I believe. The specs of the SRX based on wattage and output mean that the speaker should have a sensitivity of 104db @ 1 watt 1 meter. This is not an impossible or unlikely spec. Many speakers have sensitivities like that. While not common in MI grade gear, the SRX line isn't exactly MI grade. So can you rely on the peak specs presented? In short, no.

That is the short term output that can be skewed by the scale at which they test them. Some may have actually been measured at 1M, while others at 2 meters and then scaled back to what a 1 meter output should be ( +6db of the 2 meter reading ), but that doesn't tell the whole story. While it may have actually read XXXdb, it may have done so at 1 frequency. If you average the output across all frequencies, it may be several db lower in true output across the board. So we go back again to what do you need and where and what do the specs say?

The truth is that all the above mentioned speakers will perform relatively well in respect to one another. My bet would be that the one that has the loudest spec, will be the loudest ( at the frequencies that make that level of output ). So if all the speakers in this line up are within 10hz of each other in either direction and within 3db of each other in peak output, they may as well be the same unless you are looking for something specific. What is that? All the speakers you have presented are within 3db of each other BTW. Given that 3db is not the end all be all, you can almost flip a coin. I went with the SRX-818 because it was the only one that had user configurable DSP and my experience with the new SRX line has shown that it is a very serious line, is affordable and was not fluffing the numbers much if at all.

Excellent! Thank you. Great info there. I am looking for a "best of all worlds" setup. This system will be used indoor in 200 seat venues, outdoor at "vocal competitions", community events, DJ gigs, etc. I would sacrifice the very low frequency for overall output. I too am looking seriously at the SRX 818sp-SRX815 combo on polls. Nice to be able to transport it via mini-van instead of having to haul everything in the truck as well....
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2018, 08:17:39 pm »

It was Lance Richens, and yes, I am looking at the SPL.
One thing that is often overlooked is at what freq is the max SPL determined?  In many cases it is NOT in what people would consider the "sub range"

Here is a little "litmus" test regarding specs.

Consider that 1000 watts is a 30dB gain in level.

So let's pick an imaginary speaker.

Let's say it claims 134dB peak SPL, has a 1000 watt amp and a single 18" driver.

So if you subtract the gain of the amp (30dB) from the peak SPL, you have a sensitivity at 1 watt of 104dB.

Have you EVER seen a front loaded single 18" sub that had 104dB sensitivity around 104dB-down in the usage range of the cabinet?

It would typically be around 96dB (give or take a little).

So yes, the cabinet may produce the SPL it is rated at, but often NOT at the freq range you will be using it in.

You MUST look a bit deeper than a "simple single SPL number", to accurately compare data.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2018, 08:31:34 pm »

It was Lance Richens, and yes, I am looking at the SPL.

Your old account is still active, the user name is Lancester. If you need me to reset the password I can.

Mac
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Richens Lance

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Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2018, 08:32:53 pm »

One thing that is often overlooked is at what freq is the max SPL determined?  In many cases it is NOT in what people would consider the "sub range"

Here is a little "litmus" test regarding specs.

Consider that 1000 watts is a 30dB gain in level.

So let's pick an imaginary speaker.

Let's say it claims 134dB peak SPL, has a 1000 watt amp and a single 18" driver.

So if you subtract the gain of the amp (30dB) from the peak SPL, you have a sensitivity at 1 watt of 104dB.

Have you EVER seen a front loaded single 18" sub that had 104dB sensitivity around 104dB-down in the usage range of the cabinet?

It would typically be around 96dB (give or take a little).

So yes, the cabinet may produce the SPL it is rated at, but often NOT at the freq range you will be using it in.

You MUST look a bit deeper than a "simple single SPL number", to accurately compare data.


Very good point! Thank you
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Richens Lance

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Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2018, 08:33:48 pm »

Your old account is still active, the user name is Lancester. If you need me to reset the password I can.

Mac

OK, thanks. I will do away with this username as soon as this thread plays out....
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2018, 09:20:33 pm »

OK, thanks. I will do away with this username as soon as this thread plays out....

PM me another email address I can send the temporary password to. I can't update the old account without an email address that does not belong to someone else.
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Richens Lance

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Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2018, 09:29:58 pm »

PM me another email address I can send the temporary password to. I can't update the old account without an email address that does not belong to someone else.

Sent. Thanks
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Mal Brown

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Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2018, 10:08:07 pm »

Lance, I have 4 kw-181s.  Love em.  They are hot in the rental market and are seemingly indestructible.  Yes, they will get loud.  I honestly dont think there is much difference in subs of this class.

My big rig uses horn loaded subs with 12s. A clean 500 watts into each - they smoke the 181s ...

Mine are EAW LA400s. They are ah, truck pack friendly...  not small in other words.


If it were me Id be looking for a set of JTR Growlers or similar smaller form factor horn and get busy with some DsP to align the tops.
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Richens Lance

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Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2018, 10:18:23 pm »

Lance, I have 4 kw-181s.  Love em.  They are hot in the rental market and are seemingly indestructible.  Yes, they will get loud.  I honestly dont think there is much difference in subs of this class.

My big rig uses horn loaded subs with 12s. A clean 500 watts into each - they smoke the 181s ...

Mine are EAW LA400s. They are ah, truck pack friendly...  not small in other words.


If it were me Id be looking for a set of JTR Growlers or similar smaller form factor horn and get busy with some DsP to align the tops.

Great advice! Thanks
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2018, 10:26:30 pm »

Great advice! Thanks

Lance, do you have another email address. The one you sent me is the one you are already registered at.
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