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Author Topic: Sound reflective stage textiles  (Read 2683 times)

Timmy Liland

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Sound reflective stage textiles
« on: February 07, 2018, 02:56:21 pm »

I am working in a venue with a reverb time of 1.1sec.
This is a multi purpose room for cinema, rock/classical concerts and whatever cultural event that shows up.
Over the stage I have 9 acoustic tiles that can be lowered and tilted.
There are also 4 roll-up curtains on each wall along the amfi with improves the reverb time a little.

When we have classical concerts (grand piano, string groups) there the performers would like to have all the stage curtains removed.
I removed all except the front curtain, which was impossible to remove without a lift. The result was an ugly looking anthracite grey stage and happy orchestra.

Will sound reflective stage textiles be a solution?
I have so far found these:
https://www.gerriets.com/en/products/acoustics/sound-reflective-textiles/clivia-echo-room-acoustics

Are there other solutions to this problem?
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lindsay Dean

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Re: Sound reflective stage textiles
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2018, 03:00:28 pm »

Along the side walls you probably would want diffusion and not reflection
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Timmy Liland

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Re: Sound reflective stage textiles
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2018, 04:12:57 pm »

Along the side walls you probably would want diffusion and not reflection

Do you mean on the stage?

The side walls along the amfi can not be touched, this treatment is completed. There has been an acoustic consultant involved before the building started.

The present reverb time is the best compromise, but sometimes the compromise isnīt good enough.

The musicians feel that the stage is too dead so sometimes some of the orchestra are sitting in front of the stage, around 1,5m from the first row.

I wold also like to hide the side walls on stage, thats why I thought reflective legs and reflective back curtains could be a good idea.

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Keith Broughton

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Re: Sound reflective stage textiles
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2018, 06:11:39 am »

Having not seen or worked with the reflective material you describe, I can't comment on how it would perform.
The acoustic tiles over the stage, are they designed to absorb sound?
I many halls I have seen deflectors over the orchestra to reflect sound back down to the different sections to give the players a more balanced sound.
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Tim Weaver

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Re: Sound reflective stage textiles
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2018, 09:21:04 am »

It's easier to mic the orchestra and feed that to a reverb unit that is used to dial in any amount of "liveness" you want.

I used to do this all the time in a dead room.
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Timmy Liland

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Re: Sound reflective stage textiles
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2018, 02:28:49 pm »

Having not seen or worked with the reflective material you describe, I can't comment on how it would perform.
The acoustic tiles over the stage, are they designed to absorb sound?
I many halls I have seen deflectors over the orchestra to reflect sound back down to the different sections to give the players a more balanced sound.

The acoustic tiles are made of plywood and curved some degrees and tilted upwards around 20 degrees. The ensemble in this picture ordered removal of all textiles included the front curtain.
I said no to remove the front curtain.
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Timmy Liland

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Re: Sound reflective stage textiles
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2018, 02:31:12 pm »

It's easier to mic the orchestra and feed that to a reverb unit that is used to dial in any amount of "liveness" you want.

I used to do this all the time in a dead room.

I was going to try that once, but they would not see any microphones on stage.
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lindsay Dean

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Re: Sound reflective stage textiles
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2018, 03:16:22 pm »

If they are curved what you're describing is a diffusion panel.
There are also diffusion panels that look like thousands of pieces of wood  different lengths, there are also some that look like slats that are made a certain way to absorb and diffuse
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lindsay Dean

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Re: Sound reflective stage textiles
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2018, 03:22:02 pm »

Substitute a very thin sheer black curtain around the stage  where are the absorption curtains were .




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lindsay Dean

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Re: Sound reflective stage textiles
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2018, 03:24:56 pm »

Substitute a very thin sheer black curtain around the stage  where are the absorption curtains were .





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Tim Weaver

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Re: Sound reflective stage textiles
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2018, 06:53:41 pm »

I was going to try that once, but they would not see any microphones on stage.

You could use some floor mics. PCC160's are pretty invisible. Since they are just feeding a verb you don't need super good mic technique or placement.
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Rick Earl

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Re: Sound reflective stage textiles
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2018, 01:27:45 pm »

I am working in a venue with a reverb time of 1.1sec.
This is a multi purpose room for cinema, rock/classical concerts and whatever cultural event that shows up.
Over the stage I have 9 acoustic tiles that can be lowered and tilted.
There are also 4 roll-up curtains on each wall along the amfi with improves the reverb time a little.

When we have classical concerts (grand piano, string groups) there the performers would like to have all the stage curtains removed.
I removed all except the front curtain, which was impossible to remove without a lift. The result was an ugly looking anthracite grey stage and happy orchestra.

Will sound reflective stage textiles be a solution?
I have so far found these:
https://www.gerriets.com/en/products/acoustics/sound-reflective-textiles/clivia-echo-room-acoustics

Are there other solutions to this problem?

There is always the compromise between what's good for speech and what is good for music.  Many halls have variable acoustic systems just for that reason.  Mics on the orchestra might help the audience, but it is difficult for them to "feel" the reverb you put into the rest of the room.  Lindsay Deans' suggestion of a sheer curtain on the side walls is probably more efficient than the sound reflecting curtains. (probably cheaper too).   The sound reflecting curtains are are approximately 90% above 1K where something like PD cloth would not come close to 10% attenuation.   Portable reflective panels also work, many halls have those as part of their orchestra shell.  The issue with those is finding a place to store them.   Generally I find in the projects I work on, there are not too many good AND cheap acoustic solutions, so unfortunately they are valued engineered out early in the process. 
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Sound reflective stage textiles
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2018, 09:47:23 am »

The venue needs a "shell".  Since a permanent orchestra shell is out of the question I suggest portable "choral shells" from Wenger or similar suppliers.  The ensemble is looking for the closed, early-reflection dominated sound of a contained performance space.
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Keith Broughton

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Re: Sound reflective stage textiles
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2018, 11:09:39 am »

The venue needs a "shell".  Since a permanent orchestra shell is out of the question I suggest portable "choral shells" from Wenger or similar suppliers.  The ensemble is looking for the closed, early-reflection dominated sound of a contained performance space.
Had no idea such a device existed!
Learn something every day  :)

https://www.wengercorp.com/acoustics/travelmaster-portable-acoustic-shell.php
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Tim Weaver

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Re: Sound reflective stage textiles
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2018, 01:41:17 am »

They are finger-mangling bastards, but yes they do work as advertised.
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Don T. Williams

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Re: Sound reflective stage textiles
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2018, 03:59:05 pm »

I'll agree with both Tims.  I'm a board member of a symphony, and our home venue installed a Wenger shell system that is removable.  The tops fly up and out and the sides an back are movable in sections.  Its a pain, but the symphony loves it and immediately was able to play better and sounded better.  You may not want to know what it cost.

Certainly some fabrics are very reflective.  I've done shows in large tents a fair number of times.  Its "interesting"!
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