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[John Finney]

I’m a UCS1 owner/user, and neither compact nor loud really come to mind with them.  Don’t get me wrong, I really like them, but I’d think to consider something truly compact you’d be looking at a non-horn design or maybe something like a Growler, or something truly loud to be at a whole different price point.  They also don’t get particularly loud, but in multiples I’d consider their performance to be “sufficient”.  They’re good for the money but still definitely a budget box.  Art’s subs will get louder and lower, and we have the A:B test data to prove it!  Good luck with the search though!

I have a pair of UCS1b, and I agree with all of this. I am considering a pair of Danley Mini to be the compact subs (with my SH-100s) , AND the pair of UCS1b to flesh out my mid size (4 SPL-TD1), but I no wanna hijack this thread, so I will start a thread on all of this at some point...

[Nathan Riddle]

Nathan,
Funny you don't consider 33hz to be "low" or "deep", then recommend the Keystone, which has a 35Hz Fb.

I have four Keystone "B-Low" for sale now, they have a 33 Hz Fb,(31Hz with the "step down" plate) but won't make it to Indiana for the OP's budget.

Art

Hi Art,

You got me!

You can consider those as two separate thoughts.

Within his budget building will get a better bang for buck. Your design currently wins the DIY sub market. Thus the suggestion.

30hz is the new 50hz. But it still isn't 10-20hz which I would consider deep/lowest. Low would be in the 25-35hz range. Average is now 40hz. Just my feelings

Until we define subjective descriptive sound terms well just have to ask what someone means

[Ivan Beaver]

30hz is the new 50hz. But it still isn't 10-20hz which I would consider deep/lowest. Low would be in the 25-35hz range. Average is now 40hz. Just my feelings

Until we define subjective descriptive sound terms well just have to ask what someone means

And of course it REALLY depends on how many dB 30Hz is RELATIVE to the rest of the response.

I recently ran into a modern sub that claimed to be -3dB at 27Hz.  But when you look at THEIR response graph, 27Hz was ACTUALLY -27dB from the rest of the response.

The real -3dB was closer to 55Hz.  "But nobody wants to read that-so let's just use a lower number"

Simple numbers result in simple wrong answers

[Roland Clarke]

Hi Art,

You got me!

You can consider those as two separate thoughts.

Within his budget building will get a better bang for buck. Your design currently wins the DIY sub market. Thus the suggestion.

30hz is the new 50hz. But it still isn't 10-20hz which I would consider deep/lowest. Low would be in the 25-35hz range. Average is now 40hz. Just my feelings

Until we define subjective descriptive sound terms well just have to ask what someone means

Subs that go below 20 hz are imho of very little value and the cost in power, weight or performance would be pretty pointless.  I agree with Ivan that many figures given out don’t support real world applications.  I’d be interested for anyone to offer a reason for wanting performance below that or reasonably performance below 30hz at say a -3db point.

[Scott Holtzman]

Subs that go below 20 hz are imho of very little value and the cost in power, weight or performance would be pretty pointless.  I agree with Ivan that many figures given out don’t support real world applications.  I’d be interested for anyone to offer a reason for wanting performance below that or reasonably performance below 30hz at say a -3db point.

Meyer disagrees https://meyersound.com/product/vlfc/

However there is a trend away from subwoofers in home audio (home theater is different) where excess bass and poor integration lead to mudying of the music.

Ditto with many music styles, venues install subs and well meaning engineers thing they have to create an impactful sub regardless of music style.

Putting subs under a stage is a sure recipe to have a room sound like crap, it gets into everything.  I made this mistake once (in an install).

[John Chiara]

Meyer disagrees https://meyersound.com/product/vlfc/

However there is a trend away from subwoofers in home audio (home theater is different) where excess bass and poor integration lead to mudying of the music.

Ditto with many music styles, venues install subs and well meaning engineers thing they have to create an impactful sub regardless of music style.

Putting subs under a stage is a sure recipe to have a room sound like crap, it gets into everything.  I made this mistake once (in an install).

I had a venue where I had 4 Danley TH215's under a 4'8" high stage...and it was awesome.
Deeper stages are also candidates for small end fire arrays, where I can see possible benefits. Stage construction is important.

[Scott Holtzman]

I had a venue where I had 4 Danley TH215's under a 4'8" high stage...and it was awesome.
Deeper stages are also candidates for small end fire arrays, where I can see possible benefits. Stage construction is important.

I would be interested in that construction for future reference.  I would think that anything but poured concrete would resonate.

[Nathan Riddle]

This last install I did for a church I had the contractor build me a double ply glued sealed ribbed box for the Martin 218. Sealed to the walls and isolated from touching almost everything.

Turned out awesome! The stage doesn't shake/resonate as much!

Caleb Dueck helped me get the idea down and convey it to the wood worker.

[Ivan Beaver]

Subs that go below 20 hz are imho of very little value and the cost in power, weight or performance would be pretty pointless.  I agree with Ivan that many figures given out don’t support real world applications.  I’d be interested for anyone to offer a reason for wanting performance below that or reasonably performance below 30hz at say a -3db point.

There is more than just a fundamental freq.

One venue I go to kinda regularly has subs that go low with authority.

I MEASURE response all the time that have 25Hz just as loud as 60Hz.

I have seen this with a wide variety of live music that "basically" doesn't have freq that low.  4 string bass and kick drum are the fundamental deep instruments.

I have seen it on driving rock and roll (Ted Negent for example), to thrash (Anthrax and such) to Southern rock (Black Berry Smoke) and others.

There is a "sense" of real depth to the sound, and the overall levels are lower than what you might expect from those types of bands (event though the system is capable of louder).

My "guess" is that the FOH guys are getting "the feel" they are looking for and are able to keep it all clean with the vocals up on top.

A guess as to why 25Hz is so loud (it is the band, not the HVAC system), could be from the air rushing past the kick mic, to sub harmonics being generated.

[Lance Hallmark]

My simple recommendation for a bunch of Frat guys on a budget would be to grab as many Yorkville LS800p/LS801ps you can find for your budget. Don't go super low but will rattle everything off of the walls. They are a bit boomy but that works well with the music they will be playing (or can be tamed via EQ). Lastly, they are mostly idiot proof and bulletproof plus one of the loudest subs in the sub $1500 price range. One Yorkville can equal a pair of similarly priced subs, IMO. I promise you they will fit your needs perfectly.

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