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Author Topic: Rack mountable surge protectors  (Read 5569 times)

Wes Garland

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Re: Rack mountable surge protectors
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2018, 09:05:52 am »

Interesting thread.  FWIW I generally use very basic APC 1U rackmount PDUs for my equipment, because I have a bunch saved from IT datacenter work.

What exactly does the SurgeX do that other brands don't?  I was under the impression that all of these products clamp surges with MOVs?  My worry is always undetected MOV degradation.

re. the Furmann stuff - I was under the impression that it was a just bandpass filters centered at 60Hz, like the old ISOBars from the 90s.  Is my impression correct?

What exactly the  problem with mixing/matching surge suppressors?  I generally feed three "power bars" with circuit breakers (and, I assume, MOVs) from a rack PDU to power my stage.  Then I will run lights and FOH from a different circuit/PDU if possible.
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Steve Litscher

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Re: Rack mountable surge protectors
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2018, 10:50:36 am »

Well, ok... my local vendor can't get Eaton products, but they do carry the entire SurgeX line. I see SurgeX has a double conversion UPS - the UPS-1000-OL.

Thinking this might be the best way to go, and if I understand everyone here correctly, should eliminate the need for any additional purchases (surge protection, filter, etc)?

Rob Spence

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Re: Rack mountable surge protectors
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2018, 12:49:15 pm »

When you use the words “surge” about your power, what do you mean?
The voltage correction devices are switching transformer taps and as such do not react to fast changes in voltage. Mostly they are used when the voltage sags for an extended time, think seconds or even hours. Generators of appropriate size don’t sag or surge.
I have liked the Trip-light ups devices. I used to use APC but after a few too many swollen batteries that were very hard to remove (think disassemble the frigging thing), I stopped.

Surge suppressors (power strips) in series can cause CGFI trips. I cut out the MOVs.



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frank kayser

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Re: Rack mountable surge protectors
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2018, 01:09:47 am »

I'm going to buck the Surgex recommendation.  Never again.


I bought two Model DS-PP (stand alone, not rack mounted) (rated 120v 15a) Type 3 surge protective devices a couple years ago because they were so highly spoken of, and that it was said their design did not use MOVs. Seemed perfect for my Lounge Level rig. However, the first time I went to use them at our event, the GFCI it was plugged into popped. Reset the GFCI, and popped again. Odd I thought.  Took a while to determine the Surgex was the problem.  Probably defective, but should be checked further.


Later I "tested" it on every GFCI device I could find.  Popped every one immediately with a load, and with no load.   Definately, not doing what I thought it should.  Time to turn it in under warranty.


A call to Surgex produced (paraphrased) "yes we know that.  You should not be using them in that way. They were meant for office laser printers and the such, which don't plug into GFCI devices. There is a different unit that does not trip GFCI, but we won't honor the warranty on your devices as they are not defective, and are operating as designed"  No offer to trade up, either.   >:(


Nowhere on the box, documentation, or website did they mention or warn about incompatibilities  with GFCI devices.  Not mentioned on the label, either.  >:(


I had a long post on this forum and even Mike Sokol got the runaround from them.  I even withheld the Surgex name in case I had made some type of error, or they would make good.  After months of broken promises, I was too fed up with them to continue, and released the name on the forum.  The post is still on here somewhere.


I know folks swear by Surgex.  I can't imagine that a company designed a surge protector that is incompatible with GFCI devices.  Where and how much current are they leaking?  Why?  I can't imagine any company offering for sale anything that trips every GFCI it is plugged into.


This is one company that will never get a second chance from me.  >:(  Bad product, misleading documentation and box labeling, and an arrogant company that could give a s^&t about customers.  >:( >:(  Really?  They can't eat $60 for customer good will.  If I never hear the name again, it will be too soon.  >:( >:( >:(


PM me if you really want to know how I feel.


frank



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Brian Bolly

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Re: Rack mountable surge protectors
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2018, 03:38:23 pm »

Well, ok... my local vendor can't get Eaton products, but they do carry the entire SurgeX line. I see SurgeX has a double conversion UPS - the UPS-1000-OL.

Thinking this might be the best way to go, and if I understand everyone here correctly, should eliminate the need for any additional purchases (surge protection, filter, etc)?

The SurgeX UPS-1000-OL is OEM'd by Extreme Power (xpcc.com) - it is effectively their P90 series UPS.  Same thing for the Juice Goose SCV series.  I do not believe these units (even the SurgeX branded ones) have any of the regular SurgeX technology in them.  Most UPS units do have some sort of surge suppression in them, but read carefully.

What I have done for the last 15+ years is use a real SurgeX SX series in front of the UPS, as not everything needs the UPS, but everything could use the SurgeX.  I quit using Furmans after 2 events: 1) Dave (THE Dave, LAB founder) posted a photo from a failed Furman that took out a rack of high dollar gear with it; 2) I went on a service call after a local cathedral took a number of lightning strikes in one night.  Everything on a SurgeX including a custom API console survived, completely unscathed, and everything not on one was either burned, fried or blown up/out.  (Ever seen an ETC DMX wall plate blown out of the wall??)

SurgeX work, period.  And the SX series, which are the rack mount units designed for what we do, are not MOV based - I can't speak to Frank's experience.
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Frank DeWitt

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Re: Rack mountable surge protectors
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2018, 07:36:53 pm »

2) I went on a service call after a local cathedral took a number of lightning strikes in one night.  Everything on a SurgeX including a custom API console survived, completely unscathed, and everything not on one was either burned, fried or blown up/out.  (Ever seen an ETC DMX wall plate blown out of the wall??)

SurgeX work, period.  And the SX series, which are the rack mount units designed for what we do, are not MOV based - I can't speak to Frank's experience.

We had a similar experience. Our sound equipment is protected by two Surge-X  one in the booth, and one behind the platform.  Our video equipment was not protected.  A near by lightning hit took out most of our video equipment. Not a single piece of the protected audio equipment was damaged.  We now have a 3rd SurgeX for all the video.   There is none better.
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Jean-Pierre Coetzee

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Re: Rack mountable surge protectors
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2018, 05:55:22 am »

What exactly does the SurgeX do that other brands don't?  I was under the impression that all of these products clamp surges with MOVs?  My worry is always undetected MOV degradation.

The SurgeX units don't use MOVs, these are serious devices and cost a lot more than normal surge protectors, definitely look at their website.
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William Schnake

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Re: Rack mountable surge protectors
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2018, 07:34:46 am »

I would first like to say thank you for creating this form. There's a great amount of information.
I would like to ask what everyone is running for a rack mountable surge protector for their main equipment.
Thank you.
Lyn, we use the Tripplite line of rack mount surge protector with battery backup.  They work great.  Anything that is digital, except power amps, we use are protected by them in our road racks.  We have never had a problem with them in 5 years.

Bill
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Frank DeWitt

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Re: Rack mountable surge protectors
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2018, 10:08:37 am »


What exactly does the SurgeX do that other brands don't?  I was under the impression that all of these products clamp surges with MOVs?  My worry is always undetected MOV degradation.


Surge-X dosn't use MOVs.  Also they are self checking and will show an error if there is a problem.  Very important for a distributed system such as most sound systems, they don't dump spikes to the ground thus causing the ground at other points in the system to spike.
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Adam Kane

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Re: Rack mountable surge protectors
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2018, 02:27:26 pm »

Surge-X dosn't use MOVs.  Also they are self checking and will show an error if there is a problem.  Very important for a distributed system such as most sound systems, they don't dump spikes to the ground thus causing the ground at other points in the system to spike.

So, I've never had a piece of Surge-X gear open. What do they use in place of MOV's?
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