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Author Topic: Cameras for Mid-level concert recording  (Read 2345 times)

William Schnake

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Cameras for Mid-level concert recording
« on: January 17, 2018, 11:13:02 am »

Hi, I have little or no knowledge about cameras.  I own a mid-size sound company that does mainly 70's, 80's, 90's and current country concerts and festivals.  We also do some conference work which includes recording lectures both sound and video for web release.  In our current offerings we have been using Cubase Pro 9.5 with Wavelab Pro 9.5 for our audio rendering.  We can capture up to 48 channels for 48kHz audio with our Mac Mini setup.  I would also like to be able to capture video of some of the shows. 

My thoughts are as follows:
Four cameras
1) at Front of House
2) Stage Right
3) Stage Left
4) behind the drummer attached to the back light truss.

We then run the video into a program of some kind on the Mac Mini to capture all of the video (we might need a second computer rather than our audio Mac Mini to do this).  When we get back to our shop we would first Mix a stereo track of all of the audio so that it is finished and ready to go.  Then using something like Final Cut Pro we could bring in the video and align the audio master track to the video start.  At that point we would be able to take the four views of the show and make a decent looking video.  We render the audio and the final video together and hopefully we would be able to have some good web content for promotion.

For the cameras on the stage I was thinking of something along the GO PRo line.  I would like to have something better than that for the FoH camera although it to would be stationary.  I don't really care about the audio quality of the cameras since we have our audio recorded on a separate platform.

My budget for the cameras and Final Cut Pro is $5,000.  So, any ideas would be helpful.  As I said, audio, not an issue, Video, I am like a new born baby pissing on himself.

Thanks in advance.

Bill
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Nathan Riddle

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Re: Cameras for Mid-level concert recording
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2018, 03:59:18 pm »

How long are your shows?

If all you're doing is recording video you wouldn't need to bring video/sdi to FOH.

Grab 3x gopro's for the stage and 3x DSLR's. Record straight to disc.

I ask about how long because DSLR's sometimes limit the amount of video length, you can modify that with firmware though.
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William Schnake

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Re: Cameras for Mid-level concert recording
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2018, 06:03:46 pm »

How long are your shows?

If all you're doing is recording video you wouldn't need to bring video/sdi to FOH.

Grab 3x gopro's for the stage and 3x DSLR's. Record straight to disc.

I ask about how long because DSLR's sometimes limit the amount of video length, you can modify that with firmware though.

Nathan, thanks for the response.  Most of this type of show will be between 75 and 100 minutes give or take.  Is there any particular gopro that would work better?  Also, I am guessing that I will need a way to start the cameras all at the same time.  I don't know that to be a fact.  Input?

Thanks
Bill
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Mark Cadwallader

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Re: Cameras for Mid-level concert recording
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2018, 06:21:04 pm »

Maybe a DMX trigger?  There are little electro-mechanical devices that rotate an arm on command. I've seen them with Broadway road compamies as "quick fix" for something like a non-functioning projector shutter.
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William Schnake

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Re: Cameras for Mid-level concert recording
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2018, 06:55:21 pm »

Maybe a DMX trigger?  There are little electro-mechanical devices that rotate an arm on command. I've seen them with Broadway road compamies as "quick fix" for something like a non-functioning projector shutter.
Thanks Mark.  We will see what we can figure out.

Bill
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Philip Roberts

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Re: Cameras for Mid-level concert recording
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2018, 09:38:40 pm »

You can use various programs to automatically  line up the various video files based on their audio. I know its built into premier, not sure about FCP. Plural Eyes is a third part option.
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William Schnake

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Re: Cameras for Mid-level concert recording
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2018, 09:54:30 pm »

You can use various programs to automatically  line up the various video files based on their audio. I know its built into premier, not sure about FCP. Plural Eyes is a third part option.
Thanks Philip.

Bill
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Nathan Riddle

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Re: Cameras for Mid-level concert recording
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2018, 11:33:27 pm »

Yeah I wouldn't worry about starting the cameras at the same time you can line the video tracks up very easily in any video editing program even windows movie maker...

Go-Pro's well the newer ones are certainly better; not sure you'd need that new though. And honestly, the knockoff ones from Amazon for ~$50-100 work just as good and are probably fine for your application.

Nikon D3200, D3300, D5200, D5300, etc are good cameras. You could record to the micro SD card for 20-30min of video. Firmware editing would be required to go over that limit.

https://petapixel.com/2013/04/09/nikon-hack-removes-the-recording-time-limit-on-d3100-d5100-and-d7000/

Decent Camcorder might be a better option *shrug*

We might be getting into the territory where you might want to consider shooting in raw and color depth and dynamic range (for lighting) and other things that are out of my area of expertise.

Though at the end of the day, just like an audio console... the user matters WAY more than the equipment.
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William Schnake

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Re: Cameras for Mid-level concert recording
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2018, 11:28:40 am »

Yeah I wouldn't worry about starting the cameras at the same time you can line the video tracks up very easily in any video editing program even windows movie maker...

Go-Pro's well the newer ones are certainly better; not sure you'd need that new though. And honestly, the knockoff ones from Amazon for ~$50-100 work just as good and are probably fine for your application.

Decent Camcorder might be a better option *shrug*

We might be getting into the territory where you might want to consider shooting in raw and color depth and dynamic range (for lighting) and other things that are out of my area of expertise.

Though at the end of the day, just like an audio console... the user matters WAY more than the equipment.
I was thinking a decent small digital camcorder.  I already have a Canon SLR 40D, however it doesn't shoot video.  It does take fantastic picture while on vacation which is why I bought it.

I would like to be able to do 1080 on the GoPro type cameras.  I will check out the ones on Amazon.

I am thinking an external 750 GB SSD using the Thunderbolt port on my Mac Mini for recording.  I did a test with 32 tracks yesterday and 1 hour of 32 track, 48K audio takes 15.56 GB of SSD space.  So the audio for a show will be between 22 GB and 30 GB depending on the number of tracks.  Then on top of that I will have the video footage.

I wonder if I could find a camcorder that would hook directly to the Mac Mini and stream it's capture video to the 750 GB SSD?  That would be cool.

Thanks
Bill
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Nathan Riddle

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Re: Cameras for Mid-level concert recording
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2018, 11:47:58 am »

I was thinking a decent small digital camcorder.  I already have a Canon SLR 40D, however it doesn't shoot video.  It does take fantastic picture while on vacation which is why I bought it.

I would like to be able to do 1080 on the GoPro type cameras.  I will check out the ones on Amazon.

I am thinking an external 750 GB SSD using the Thunderbolt port on my Mac Mini for recording.  I did a test with 32 tracks yesterday and 1 hour of 32 track, 48K audio takes 15.56 GB of SSD space.  So the audio for a show will be between 22 GB and 30 GB depending on the number of tracks.  Then on top of that I will have the video footage.

I wonder if I could find a camcorder that would hook directly to the Mac Mini and stream it's capture video to the 750 GB SSD?  That would be cool.

Thanks
Bill

I would NOT record to the Mac Mini for video. ESPECIALLY when it is recording audio at the same time. The HDD will not keep up.

You can take a DSLR output (typically micro HDMI) [Though doesn't look like DSLR 40D has that] and convert to SDI then to a BlackMagic microSD card recorder.

The BM microSD recorder is about 1hr 6min for 64gig SD card @ one of their lowest 1080p codec's bitrate setting.

Camcorder might be a good idea if you're willing to do 'on-the-cheap' Especially considering, and I'm reading between the lines, that this is extra work & cost the client isn't paying for.

On-the-cheap for cameras means colors are off, sensors don't pickup low light, graininess in the image, etc. That may or may not be acceptable, and it may or may not happen. Really depends on ambient lighting conditions & the hardware/software combination in the camera.
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