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[Chris Hindle]

I am ONLY putting 3x sticks of truss in the venue. No Audio cables, speakers, amps. No light fixtures, wires, electrical. I am not beating their quote, I am not even competing with anyone.

Ummm. Red Flag here....

You're putting in truss, with no say (ultimately) on what get's hung on it ?
WOW.  With what you have already indicated, I wouldn't touch this job in a million years.
You just KNOW it's going to get abused, overloaded, clamps too tight, a whole plethora of shit.
Chris.

[Nathan Riddle]

Ummm. Red Flag here....

You're putting in truss, with no say (ultimately) on what get's hung on it ?
WOW.  With what you have already indicated, I wouldn't touch this job in a million years.
Chris.

I still really don't understand statements like these.

If another company installed the truss would they have a say on what gets hung on it?

If the owner gets his friends to put the truss in the air and then proceeds to put lights on it; does that make things more or less safe?

I realize my risk/exposure goes up, but my liability/risk goes up every time I do anything and my company grows.

Are you specifically saying that this is a bad idea for this client?
What's to say that any other client is better at not doing stupid things?

[Chris Hindle]

I still really don't understand statements like these.

If another company installed the truss would they have a say on what gets hung on it?

If the owner gets his friends to put the truss in the air and then proceeds to put lights on it; does that make things more or less safe?

I realize my risk/exposure goes up, but my liability/risk goes up every time I do anything and my company grows.

Are you specifically saying that this is a bad idea for this client?
What's to say that any other client is better at not doing stupid things?

Hi Nathan.
Look, none of us know the client, but from what you have indicated I would not go anywhere near this place.
That's just me, maybe.
In the past 40 years, I have "withdrawn" a quote or two, once the bickering and "price savings" start to come, AFTER the contract was signed.

At one place, "the competition" bid 200 more than me, and ended up agreeing to getting paid 600 less than their quote !
Around here, "stuff" is generally done by an integrator, or contractor, with particular parts handed out to sub-contractors. But, there is always some kind of "Master Plan" that everyone follows.

In your case, if you can get everyone on the same page, it might work out OK.
But, with the information at hand, i wouldn't go near it.
Best, Chris.

[Nathan Riddle]

Hi Nathan.
Look, none of us know the client, but from what you have indicated I would not go anywhere near this place.
That's just me, maybe.
In the past 40 years, I have "withdrawn" a quote or two, once the bickering and "price savings" start to come, AFTER the contract was signed.

At one place, "the competition" bid 200 more than me, and ended up agreeing to getting paid 600 less than their quote !
Around here, "stuff" is generally done by an integrator, or contractor, with particular parts handed out to sub-contractors. But, there is always some kind of "Master Plan" that everyone follows.

In your case, if you can get everyone on the same page, it might work out OK.
But, with the information at hand, i wouldn't go near it.
Best, Chris.

Ahh okay, that makes sense.

Thanks for explaining your position and experiences.

I think you're right; from the other side of the interwebz the scenario might seem more dangerous than it is. Mostly for my 'worst case scenario' (DOOMSDAY) thoughts. I don't think it will happen that way, but I'm preparing for the worst. Hoping for the best

[side note, if client doesn't accept the price I gave to do a safe install; then I refuse to do any business at this venue largely due to the liability ramification expressed in this thread]

I feel confident as long as the truss is installed correctly they aren't going to overload it or do anything seriously stupid.

My first question (clients that don't listen) isn't actually about the install part i'm doing. It's about a friend who asked for x,y, and z equipment [sound board, speakers, etc] to make his venue work (they already have shared history in an older venue). For instance, friend says: go with this: speaker because it will work. Owner then goes with a different speaker because he 'found a good deal on the interwebz'

Hopefully that clears even more up.

[brian maddox]

....

My first question (clients that don't listen) isn't actually about the install part i'm doing. It's about a friend who asked for x,y, and z equipment [sound board, speakers, etc] to make his venue work (they already have shared history in an older venue). For instance, friend says: go with this: speaker because it will work. Owner then goes with a different speaker because he 'found a good deal on the interwebz'

Hopefully that clears even more up.

I deal with that with an upward motion of both my shoulders.  Perhaps accompanied with a heavier than usual exhale. 

Seriously i've had that happen so many times that at this point, at least on this question, i would shorten your original subject line to simply "Handling Clients".  All i can do is try to share my experience and help in whatever way i can.  They will do what they are going to do.

As an aside.  In my experience in trying to help out churches that i have attended and even worked for, i honestly can't recall one time where my recommendations were actually implemented.  The first dozen times or so i took it personally.  I don't anymore...

[Tim McCulloch]

I deal with that with an upward motion of both my shoulders.  Perhaps accompanied with a heavier than usual exhale. 

Seriously i've had that happen so many times that at this point, at least on this question, i would shorten your original subject line to simply "Handling Clients".  All i can do is try to share my experience and help in whatever way i can.  They will do what they are going to do.

As an aside.  In my experience in trying to help out churches that i have attended and even worked for, i honestly can't recall one time where my recommendations were actually implemented.  The first dozen times or so i took it personally.  I don't anymore...

That's been my experience in "facilities" of all types.  Even if you run the department and got a note from your mom...  What's amazing is how a request or expression of an operational or technical preference can go to a committee to get turned all around, upside down, inside out and reassembled to look nothing like what we asked for.  Just when you get that straightened out the project is defunded.

[TJ (Tom) Cornish]

I deal with that with an upward motion of both my shoulders.  Perhaps accompanied with a heavier than usual exhale. 
...i honestly can't recall one time where my recommendations were actually implemented.  The first dozen times or so i took it personally.  I don't anymore...

This is why I always charge for design time.  This takes the pain out of utterly disregarding what I worked for, especially if I get the opportunity to redesign it and charge again. 

A few years ago I was the design consultant on a large (30+ acres) outdoor horse eventing course.  The owner ran a metal manufacturing business and built all of the towers and structures in-house.  He always loosely interpreted what I spec'd, sometimes in ways that simply couldn't possibly work.  This guy apparently had no problem sending his small army of metal workers off to make some hand-wavey "thing" only to have to scrap it when inevitably it didn't work, but apparently was always too busy to look at the plans before beginning construction.

The parts of the design he actually built reasonably close to how I spec'd them ended up working very well - time aligned delay towers that meant you could actually hear the program, unlike what is typical for the industry - cruddy paging horns thrown anywhere. The parts of the design where he was more "freeform" didn't work out quite as well.

I got paid for all my time - design time, install time, redesign time, reinstall time, re-redesign time, etc. 

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