ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Down

Author Topic: PA speaker to cover 80-200hz, DXR-12 or K12  (Read 8391 times)

Stephen Kirby

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3006
Re: PA speaker to cover 80-200hz, DXR-12 or K12
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2018, 11:39:14 PM »

Of the speakers listed, I would greatly prefer the DXR12.  If you can swing the extra little bit of money, a DSR112 would be even better IMO.
The DSR will play louder but doesn't really have much bass.  Not a good choice for between 80-200.  The DSR's strong point is the CD/horn that doesn't give out like the QSCs and others.  The DXR actually has more bottom and is a better stand alone (no subs) box.  If you had to run a bass though one, or use it as a drum monitor will lots of the bass guitar in it, the DXR would be the better choice.  For front line monitors where clarity of vocals and SPL are paramount, the DSR would win.
Logged

Chris Grimshaw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1822
  • Sheffield, UK
    • Grimshaw Audio
Re: PA speaker to cover 80-200hz, DXR-12 or K12
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2018, 03:48:46 AM »

Okay, so let me get this right.

You've got a 18" subwoofer under a stage, and you're feeding it a signal filtered at 80Hz and 200Hz, and you're wondering why it sounds rubbish and what could replace it. My instinct tells me it's because you're using a 18" sub entirely outside of its operating band.

More information about the rest of the system would be useful methinks. I can see why it's sounding bad at the moment. Filtering bass guitar, E-drums or anything else at 80Hz-200Hz would sound very bad indeed.

So yes, what's the rest of the system?
How have you got it all set up?
What's the desired outcome?

We can all name cabinets that'll do lots of fun things from 80Hz-200Hz, but I really doubt if that's the solution here.

Chris
Logged
Sheffield-based sound engineering.
www.grimshawaudio.com

Scott Bolt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1766
Re: PA speaker to cover 80-200hz, DXR-12 or K12
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2018, 07:11:16 AM »

The DSR will play louder but doesn't really have much bass.  Not a good choice for between 80-200.  The DSR's strong point is the CD/horn that doesn't give out like the QSCs and others.  The DXR actually has more bottom and is a better stand alone (no subs) box.  If you had to run a bass though one, or use it as a drum monitor will lots of the bass guitar in it, the DXR would be the better choice.  For front line monitors where clarity of vocals and SPL are paramount, the DSR would win.
I agree .... if he is not using a sub.

When used over subs, I find that the DSR112 woofer is actually more potent than the DXR woofer between 80-200 Hz. 

As you point out, the DSR112 has nothing really below 80Hz where the DXR does.  It doesn't make a good stand alone DJ box at all IMO.  It works really well stand alone for acoustic gigs though.
Logged

Stephen Kirby

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3006
Re: PA speaker to cover 80-200hz, DXR-12 or K12
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2018, 01:48:21 PM »

The OP has poorly deployed subs in place that he's trying to work around.
 
Obvious corrections would be:

Low pass the subs at a more reasonable frequency.  Build up in the 150-350 range happens really easily and muddies up most music.

Improve the stage.  Reinforce it if possible so that it doesn't resonate at low frequencies (the example I listed above is semi-portable staging that gets removed occasionally for events).  Baffle under the stage to reduce resonance under there.  Back when I worked at Dolby, in the test theater they had baffles under the seats so that there wasn't a long resonant cavity from one side to the other.

Change the deployment.  I've suggested several times to the venue I referred to above that their subs should be flown over the stage in a cardioid endfire arrangement.  There is already trussing up there flying the mains and lights.  This is a Meyer system so a fair amount of money was put into the venue.  They used to have an Avid desk but replaced it with an M32 so more lower end BEs could use it.  Whether or not the OP could do a proper similar deployment is up for question.  I hesitate to suggest hanging subs over a stage to people who may not appreciate how to do it correctly and safely.
Logged

Kurt Hutchison

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 27
Re: PA speaker to cover 80-200hz, DXR-12 or K12
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2018, 08:04:11 PM »

It's a rental hall, so I have to make do with it as-is, wheeling in a temp sub when we use the hall seems like the easiest fix to me.

I asked the main sound guy who works for the owners for more details, here is the configuration:

- it's a mono system.
- Flying line array, up high, located front and center stage, 2 500W crown amps drive it, not sure how they are wired.
- mid-bass amp, two speakers at the back of the hall, one on each side facing forwards, covers 80-200hz.  Crown 500 2-channel amp presumably one channel for each speaker.
- understage sub, cover 80hz and below.  Crown 500 2-channel wired in series (there is a name for this, I forget).

I didn't know the mid-bass was at the back of the hall, I can't wrap my mind around why that would be done.  All that sounds like a recipe for mud and timing issues.  No wonder it never sounds clean down low to my ears.

So, tightening all that up with a centerstage setup that covers around 60-200hz seems like an obvious fix to me, but I am worried a 1x12 won't be powerful enough, I think my best bet is to give it a try, and if a 1x12 is too weak, then a 2x12 or even a 2x10 would likely be ok.  The directionality of a 2x* array is appealing too. I am imagining two PA's side-by-side daisy-chained, the trick is to get them at exactly the same volume.
Logged

Mac Kerr

  • Old enough to know better
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7552
  • Audio Plumber
Re: PA speaker to cover 80-200hz, DXR-12 or K12
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2018, 09:17:36 PM »

It's a rental hall, so I have to make do with it as-is, wheeling in a temp sub when we use the hall seems like the easiest fix to me.

I asked the main sound guy who works for the owners for more details, here is the configuration:

- it's a mono system.
- Flying line array, up high, located front and center stage, 2 500W crown amps drive it, not sure how they are wired.
- mid-bass amp, two speakers at the back of the hall, one on each side facing forwards, covers 80-200hz.  Crown 500 2-channel amp presumably one channel for each speaker.
- understage sub, cover 80hz and below.  Crown 500 2-channel wired in series (there is a name for this, I forget).

I didn't know the mid-bass was at the back of the hall, I can't wrap my mind around why that would be done.  All that sounds like a recipe for mud and timing issues.  No wonder it never sounds clean down low to my ears.

So, tightening all that up with a centerstage setup that covers around 60-200hz seems like an obvious fix to me, but I am worried a 1x12 won't be powerful enough, I think my best bet is to give it a try, and if a 1x12 is too weak, then a 2x12 or even a 2x10 would likely be ok.  The directionality of a 2x* array is appealing too. I am imagining two PA's side-by-side daisy-chained, the trick is to get them at exactly the same volume.

I would start with turning off the speakers at the rear of the hall. The are adding nothing positive, only decreasing sound quality and intelligibility.

Mac
Logged

Mike Caldwell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3091
  • Covington, Ohio
    • Mike Caldwell Audio Productions
Re: PA speaker to cover 80-200hz, DXR-12 or K12
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2018, 10:24:58 PM »

My gut feeling is that from the description you gave and reading between the lines
the rental hall sound system is a poorly mantained mess of a system.
Your best bet would be to carry a complete system in with you.

Caleb Dueck

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1697
  • Sierra Vista, AZ
Re: PA speaker to cover 80-200hz, DXR-12 or K12
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2018, 10:34:18 PM »

My gut feeling is that from the description you gave and reading between the lines
the rental hall sound system is a poorly mantained mess of a system.
Your best bet would be to carry a complete system in with you.
Agreed

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

Logged
Experience is something you get right after you need it.

Kurt Hutchison

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 27
Re: PA speaker to cover 80-200hz, DXR-12 or K12
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2018, 12:12:35 AM »

I looks like it was professionally installed by a contractor, but they messed a few things up pretty bad.

Except for the below 200 hz part, the rest of it is pretty good, Midas M32 mixer (love that thing), 16-channel on-stage monitoring system (Behringer PM-16's), wiring is nicely done in recessed ports on-stage, and the flying line array is crisp and clear.

If I thought the whole system was terrible I would be right there with ya.
Logged

Scott Holtzman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7536
  • Ghost AV - Avon Lake, OH
    • Ghost Audio Visual Systems, LLC
Re: PA speaker to cover 80-200hz, DXR-12 or K12
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2018, 12:37:55 AM »

I looks like it was professionally installed by a contractor, but they messed a few things up pretty bad.

Except for the below 200 hz part, the rest of it is pretty good, Midas M32 mixer (love that thing), 16-channel on-stage monitoring system (Behringer PM-16's), wiring is nicely done in recessed ports on-stage, and the flying line array is crisp and clear.

If I thought the whole system was terrible I would be right there with ya.

How tiny is the line array?  Do you know what it is?  I can't imagine it rolls off at 200hz

Logged
Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
Cleveland OH
www.ghostav.rocks

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: PA speaker to cover 80-200hz, DXR-12 or K12
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2018, 12:37:55 AM »


Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Up
 



Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc.

Page created in 0.032 seconds with 20 queries.