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[Aaron Kennedy]

First, let me preface this by saying I am in no way an audio engineer. I am a High School Teacher that is running the sound board for our schools production of Sister Act.

I will setup my scenes under automation, but there is a scene that they want an echo effect. I know I need to use the stereo delay effect, but I don't know how to program that scene to use the effect. I also need to be sure that what I do on that scene does not affect any other scene or part of the board.

Can anyone really dumb this down for me?

Thank you in advance.

[Dave Garoutte]

Please see the sight rules and change your user name to your real name.
No one will respond until then.

[Aaron Kennedy]

Sorry about that. I've updated it.

[Aaron Kennedy]

Did I post this in the wrong forum?

[Don T. Williams]

Did I post this in the wrong forum?

Aaron, I'm sorry no one has replied yet, but I suspect it's the same reason I hadn't.  I have a Pro2 and Pro1 and they are great consoles, but trying to give an inexperienced user a simple answer in writing is really tough.  It's a complex console as are other consoles in this class.  World tours are mixed on these and there are several ways to do some things.  This doesn't mean you won't be able to do it, it's just hard to explain.  My best suggestion is find someone in your area that would come in and help, maybe a local sound company or someone from a church in your area that has a Pro Series.  If you can find a stocking dealer, take your show file with you and they might be willing to help.

My second suggestion is to use YouTube.  Midas has pretty good training videos as do some distributors, dealers, and end users.  I'm hoping a member near you might contact you.  There are people on this forum that can probably explain it more easily, but if I don't have the console in front of me I just can't answer a question like yours.  Good luck finding some help.

[Aaron Kennedy]

I appreciate the reply, and I agree this board is incredibly complex. I've been using this for five years now (self taught) and still make mistakes. Take today for example. I accidentally loaded a scene before saving what I had been working on and lost 15 hours of adjustments. lol. It is what it is though. I'll make sure the kids sound good.

I've used the effects in past shows, but it always takes hours of me messing with the board and I never seem to figure out how to do it the same each time.

In any case. I'm in the south dallas area and need to figure it out by Thursday the 18th if anyone wants to help.

Until then, I'll keep watching videos and reading.

Thanks again. 

[Andrew Hollis]

An FX device has an input and an output.

FX are most often used in one of two ways: 'send' or 'insert.'

The send method is common for spatial effects (delay and verb). By definition it utilizes a bus.

Traditionally, a user patches the output of a bus into the FX, then patches the output of the FX into a channel. The bus is the 'send path' and the channel is the 'return path.' At the other channel strips now, anything 'sent' to that bus will go through the effect.

For the insert method, the FX is patched directly into a channel or bus insert point.

Regardless of method, the task is the same on any console: you find the effect, then patch into it and out of it. That's all! ; )

[Aaron Kennedy]

Thanks Andrew. I think I understand how it's supposed to work, but the execution seems to throw me off. The way I have done it in the past sounds like the send method, and then after it's sent to FX, I have to send it to an entirely different channel. So for example it goes from mic one to FX to a new input channel (lets call it aux) and then from that back out to the master out. I always seem to have trouble getting this to work right.

You mentioned an insert method. It sounds like it may be easier going this route, but I don't fully understand how it works. When I click on insert on the mic I have destination and source and an ins button. Both the destination and source show it is unassigned. Do I still have to figure out how to patch those to something? and does it have to go to an entirely new channel like mentioned above, or does it go back to the same channel?

Also, I read somewhere that there was a desktop program that I can work on programming the board and just upload the show file. Is this true, and where do I find it?

Thanks again

[Tim McCulloch]

Thanks Andrew. I think I understand how it's supposed to work, but the execution seems to throw me off. The way I have done it in the past sounds like the send method, and then after it's sent to FX, I have to send it to an entirely different channel. So for example it goes from mic one to FX to a new input channel (lets call it aux) and then from that back out to the master out. I always seem to have trouble getting this to work right.

Not really, but you're close.  You have "mix sends" on each input channel (16 of them, IIRC but how many doesn't really matter).  Some of them are used to create performer's monitoring (or "foldback") mixes (wedges or IEM) and usually the last 4 mixes are internally assigned to EFX (reverbs, delay/echo, choruses or harmonics, etc).  You use a mix send knob on each input channel to control the proportion of signal being sent to the mix bus that feeds the input of the effect (say a reverb).  The mix bus has a Master Output fader that controls the overall level of signals sent to the effect; the effect OUTPUT is routed to either a dedicated EFX "return" (think "input") channel or any stereo channel on the desk (you can assign this stuff).

Does this make sense?  It might be easier to think of this being done on an analog mixer as you can more easily visualize the signal path with an external effect unit and patch cords.

The Pro series emulates the analog signal path using confusing diagrams and verbiage.  Last time I had to set up a Pro2, I just pushed the "Auto routing" button and most of what I wanted, worked.

You mentioned an insert method. It sounds like it may be easier going this route, but I don't fully understand how it works. When I click on insert on the mic I have destination and source and an ins button. Both the destination and source show it is unassigned. Do I still have to figure out how to patch those to something? and does it have to go to an entirely new channel like mentioned above, or does it go back to the same channel?

The insert method is exactly that.  I get the impression you don't understand what "inserts" are, so here goes:  an insert only affects the individual channel (or mix bus when they have insert points, which the Pro do, but that's another lesson).  Literally the device (effect, fancy EQ emulation, external compressor or limiter) is inserted into the channel's signal path.  ONLY that channel.  For example if you wanted to dedicate a specific reverb to the snare drum, and you didn't want to use a mix bus for this ONE thing, you could insert the reverb into the snare drum channel.  The wet/dry balance is controlled by the reverb unit parameters; with the send/return method you can vary the wet/dry balance by turning the return channel fader up or down, as well as using the mix send knobs on the channels.

Also, I read somewhere that there was a desktop program that I can work on programming the board and just upload the show file. Is this true, and where do I find it?

Thanks again

Uh...  from Midas, like on their web site?

[Aaron Kennedy]

Thank you so much for the info. It was because of your reply that it clicked in my head that I already had an effect channel setup as one of my aux sends. I just turned it on and turned it up. Selected my effect and was good to go in minutes vs the hours I spent in the past jacking with patching (which I hate).  I get analog, but digital is a little overwhelming.

So, if I download the software, how do I get the config off my board and onto the software. I assume there is some kind of export in the menu, but didn't see it. I can always google this if I need to.

Thank you again so much!

[Mike Caldwell]

I'm curious what kind of high school gets a Midas Pro 2, maybe not the best board for the general public to use once a year.
Is this  in dedicated theater or an auditeria. I would hope the rest of the system is on par with the mixer.

I hope the school appreciates your commitment to the school's production.

[Scott Holtzman]

I appreciate the reply, and I agree this board is incredibly complex. I've been using this for five years now (self taught) and still make mistakes. Take today for example. I accidentally loaded a scene before saving what I had been working on and lost 15 hours of adjustments. lol. It is what it is though. I'll make sure the kids sound good.

I've used the effects in past shows, but it always takes hours of me messing with the board and I never seem to figure out how to do it the same each time.

In any case. I'm in the south dallas area and need to figure it out by Thursday the 18th if anyone wants to help.

Until then, I'll keep watching videos and reading.

Thanks again.

15 Hours on one scene?  In 15 hours I think I could create all the scenes for Brigadoon, Henry VI and Chorus Line! 

Not asking to call the new member out, just want to understand what you were doing so possible we can help with some workflows.

If you wanted to do a Teamviewer I would be willing to show you different strategies for patching effects on the Pro series in the offline editor.

[Tim McCulloch]

15 Hours on one scene?  In 15 hours I think I could create all the scenes for Brigadoon, Henry VI and Chorus Line! 

Not asking to call the new member out, just want to understand what you were doing so possible we can help with some workflows.

If you wanted to do a Teamviewer I would be willing to show you different strategies for patching effects on the Pro series in the offline editor.

No, the tweaky Midas is that much of a pain in the ass and the 600 page manual is pretty much worthless, IMHO.  I spent half an hour finding the UNLABELED radio buttons to turn on/patch the headphone jack on a Pro 2.  Hint- they're next to the AES something or other...

I would further disparage this brand but I might need factory support some day...

[Don T. Williams]

Sound Productions in Dallas is a stocking Midas dealer.  They often have classes on mixing with the lines of gear they deal.  I'm not certain what their policy is if you just walk in, but they could be a good resource.  The Midas isn't the easiest board to use, but the software and console evolved from the XL8, and that console is elderly by digital console standards.  Comparing it to something like the D Live shows how far the user interface has advanced.  With all of that said, the Pro Series still sounds about as good as anything out there IMHO.

[Scott Holtzman]

No, the tweaky Midas is that much of a pain in the ass and the 600 page manual is pretty much worthless, IMHO.  I spent half an hour finding the UNLABELED radio buttons to turn on/patch the headphone jack on a Pro 2.  Hint- they're next to the AES something or other...

I would further disparage this brand but I might need factory support some day...

The UI is a mess, I agree.  I have had some stick time and can get around now.  There is one installed at a venue I work at and one of the rental houses we work with have few.  Just a little exposure.

[Kevin Maxwell]

Also, I read somewhere that there was a desktop program that I can work on programming the board and just upload the show file. Is this true, and where do I find it?

Thanks again

I am using Midas M32 mixer with a program called Palladium from https://www.chsounddesign.com/ . It basically does what you are asking. It works with a lot of different mixers. It can even control 3 mixers at a time and they can be all the same or different mixers. I have been using 2-M32s for some shows lately. Many mixers use Midi and with the X32/M32 it can also use OSC (Open Sound Control) that gives you a lot more control on the X32/M32 due to the limited Midi implementation on them. Some mixers have a lot of their features implemented in Midi and some don’t. Someone needs to have configured the Palladium Mixer file for the consoles that you will be using. At the moment there is no Midas Pro mixer file configured for Palladium that I know of. I don’t know if it uses OSC like the X32/M32. I would love to get my hands on one of them and see so I can configure a mixer file for it. But the nearest one that I might be able to play with (I know the owner) is about a 2hr drive from me. Maybe Midas would like to ship me one to play with.

[William Schnake]

15 Hours on one scene?  In 15 hours I think I could create all the scenes for Brigadoon, Henry VI and Chorus Line!

Now Scott, in all fairness you and I were in a Chorus Line together.  God you looked great in those mesh stockings...Hope all is well with you buddy.

Bill

[Tim McCulloch]

Now Scott, in all fairness you and I were in a Chorus Line together.  God you looked great in those mesh stockings...Hope all is well with you buddy.

Bill

I thought it was Chicago.  Stunning moves in the Cell Block Tango!

[William Schnake]

I thought it was Chicago.  Stunning moves in the Cell Block Tango!

Tim, you know it was you and me doing the Cell Block Tango together....

Bill

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