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[Nathan Riddle]

When does a wireless IEM combiner become necessary? [Technically, beyond 2x units intermod occurs correct? but practically speaking]

I have 4x EW300 G3 coming and I'd like to 'get-a-way' with not using a combiner unit for a few gigs until I've made some money back.

They will be situated in a plastic SKB rack.

If I put them by the booth (~75ft away) (I'm running out of returns on the snake) do you think there will be dropouts? (indoors)

---

Other wireless will be 6x SLX with distributor & 3x PGX (side stage).

H6 - PGX x1
J3 - SLX x6
J6 - PGX x2
G - IEM x4

WWB6 to coordinate & nuts about nets to scan & exclude.

[Pete Erskine]

When does a wireless IEM combiner become necessary? [Technically, beyond 2x units intermod occurs correct? but practically speaking]

I have 4x EW300 G3 coming and I'd like to 'get-a-way' with not using a combiner unit for a few gigs until I've made some money back.

They will be situated in a plastic SKB rack.

If I put them by the booth (~75ft away) (I'm running out of returns on the snake) do you think there will be dropouts? (indoors)

---

Other wireless will be 6x SLX with distributor & 3x PGX (side stage).

H6 - PGX x1
J3 - SLX x6
J6 - PGX x2
G - IEM x4

WWB6 to coordinate & nuts about nets to scan & exclude.

As long as you are using a good frequency coord software IAS, WWB, 1 passive 1x4 split combine will suffice.  Coordinate ALL your freqs not just the iem but with iem use 3X beat coord as well even if you are not using an active combiner.

[Keith Broughton]

When does a wireless IEM combiner become necessary? [Technically, beyond 2x units intermod occurs correct? but practically speaking]

I have 4x EW300 G3 coming and I'd like to 'get-a-way' with not using a combiner unit for a few gigs until I've made some money back.

They will be situated in a plastic SKB rack.

If I put them by the booth (~75ft away) (I'm running out of returns on the snake) do you think there will be dropouts? (indoors)

---

Other wireless will be 6x SLX with distributor & 3x PGX (side stage).

H6 - PGX x1
J3 - SLX x6
J6 - PGX x2
G - IEM x4

WWB6 to coordinate & nuts about nets to scan & exclude.

Having 4 IEMs with the stock front mounted antennas, together in a rack is not an ideal setup.
You may "get away" with it but you should look at a combiner ASAP.
You could mount 2 on the front and 2 on the back to help spread out the antennas.
Also, rack mounted equipment "usually"  is not high enough to get the antennas where they should be.

[Nathan Riddle]

As long as you are using a good frequency coord software IAS, WWB, 1 passive 1x4 split combine will suffice.  Coordinate ALL your freqs not just the iem but with iem use 3X beat coord as well even if you are not using an active combiner.

I'm sorry I'm not familiar with the term " 3x beat coord."

So what you're saying is: no, I can't use the IEM's racked without a combiner (passive or active).

That said, I don't need a RF venue, or Shure, or Senn combiner.

Instead I can use:

https://www.minicircuits.com/pdfs/ZB4CS-700-10W.pdf

From:

http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,159920

With:

N-TYPE connector to BNC for conversions.

Can I use the included 1/4 wave antenna or do I need to still purchase a helical or 1/2 wave?

Having 4 IEMs with the stock front mounted antennas, together in a rack is not an ideal setup.

You may "get away" with it but you should look at a combiner ASAP.

You could mount 2 on the front and 2 on the back to help spread out the antennas.
Also, rack mounted equipment "usually"  is not high enough to get the antennas where they should be.

Okay so don't leave them racked, un-rack them and split apart in pairs above head height to get away 'successfully' without a combiner?

---

I am perusing a used RF Venue Combiner I found just now on bookface [no antenna]

[Keith Broughton]

I'm sorry I'm not familiar with the term " 3x beat coord."

So what you're saying is: no, I can't use the IEM's racked without a combiner (passive or active).

That said, I don't need a RF venue, or Shure, or Senn combiner.

Instead I can use:

https://www.minicircuits.com/pdfs/ZB4CS-700-10W.pdf

From:

http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,159920

With:

N-TYPE connector to BNC for conversions.

Can I use the included 1/4 wave antenna or do I need to still purchase a helical or 1/2 wave?

Okay so don't leave them racked, un-rack them and split apart in pairs above head height to get away 'successfully' without a combiner?

---

I am perusing a used RF Venue Combiner I found just now on bookface [no antenna]

It's not that you can't use them in a rack, just that it's not a very good idea.
"un-rack them and split apart in pairs above head height to get away 'successfully' without a combiner?"...a better idea if you are trying to save money.
You do not need an expensive active combiner...as indicated , a passive one will work.
1/4 wave will not work if you mount it on a stand. They need to be on a panel or on the transmitter.
 A helical is probably more than you need.
An inexpensive 1/2 wave in the air will be fine.
1/4 wave needs to be mounted on a panel or transmitter.

Hope this helps.

[Henry Cohen]

You do not need an expensive active combiner...as indicated , a passive one will work.

Careful: Passively combining has significant insertion losses (the same as that for receive applications). A 4-way passive combine is almost 7dB of mathematical plus insertion loss before coax losses are added; this means your 30mW EW transmitter output is effectively <6mW. And if this antenna is going to be 75' from the receiver packs (hanging off salty water bags), resulting performance will be far short of what is desired.

First and foremost, whether using an active combiner or not, get the transmitters and their antennas much closer to the receiver packs.
Bite the bullet and purchase or rent an active combiner and directional antenna (circular polarized is preferable - PWS dome or Sennheiser A5000CP), along with good low loss coax (Belden 9913F7, LMR240, LMR400[UF], PWS S9046).

[Keith Broughton]

Careful: Passively combining has significant insertion losses (the same as that for receive applications). A 4-way passive combine is almost 7dB of mathematical plus insertion loss before coax losses are added; this means your 30mW EW transmitter output is effectively <6mW. And if this antenna is going to be 75' from the receiver packs (hanging off salty water bags), resulting performance will be far short of what is desired.

A good point. I was following up on Pete's suggestion. I have always used active combiners.
 Suggesting something I have not actually used was bad form on my part

I maybe misread the post but I though the transmitters would be on stage and there was an "option" to be at FOH.
At 75' out, a combiner and paddle antenna would be a better choice.

[Pete Erskine]

A good point. I was following up on Pete's suggestion. I have always used active combiners.
 Suggesting something I have not actually used was bad form on my part

I maybe misread the post but I though the transmitters would be on stage and there was an "option" to be at FOH.
At 75' out, a combiner and paddle antenna would be a better choice.

No - on the stage is better.

[Nathan Riddle]

A good point. I was following up on Pete's suggestion. I have always used active combiners.
 Suggesting something I have not actually used was bad form on my part

I maybe misread the post but I though the transmitters would be on stage and there was an "option" to be at FOH.
At 75' out, a combiner and paddle antenna would be a better choice.

You are correct FOH or stage. My snake is 8 returns and usually I use 4x for FOH/Front Fill. and I'll need 2x for PSM200 mono IEM's and 2x for stereo wired IEM.

My goal was to see if it was feasible to use the IEM's at FOH without paddle/helical & distro unit, but seems best that I not.

I'm working on obtaining an active combiner, and I picked up a Shure UA8-P10T 554-626MHz 1/2 wave antenna.

---

To sum this thread up, it's best NOT to use passive combination even in emergency.

It would be better to space the transmitters out greater than 1 wavelength (0.5m @ 600MHz) apart.

It would be better to put them near the stage.

---

Questions

Once I get a combiner & helical I can place at FOH?
Can I place units w/ active combiner @ FOH with 1/2 wave [indoors] < ~75ft?

[Keith Broughton]

No - on the stage is better.

Could you expand on the "no" a bit more.

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