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Author Topic: My beloved DSR112 not well  (Read 28934 times)

Chris Grimshaw

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Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
« Reply #110 on: February 23, 2018, 03:25:35 am »

The woofer driver is $365 if you have to purchase it yourself FYI. 


I'd be amazed if the driver was worth that - it gets you a B&C 18TBX100 with change. The photos on the Yamaha website look like Eminence Deltalite series, which come in around $150.

Datapoint on Yamaha speakers: 1x DBR10, gets used for house parties and the like with a sub, so you know they hammer it. No problems so far.

Chris
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David Morison

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Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
« Reply #111 on: February 23, 2018, 08:48:46 am »

I'd be amazed if the driver was worth that - it gets you a B&C 18TBX100 with change. The photos on the Yamaha website look like Eminence Deltalite series, which come in around $150.
Chris

Just being pedantic; the Yammi's are 3" voicecoil so closer to the Kappalite series than the Deltalite, making the comparison $190 rather than $150 (using the price on Emi's own website).

Not that that does anything to change your underlying point - it's still a huge markup.

Obviously, no manufacturer wants random people just buying their spares to use in DIY boxes or anything silly like that, so I understand there being some premium, but 92% does still seem huge.

FWIW,
David.

Edit to add: I'm also fully aware it might not be the stock driver, and any customization to suit Yamaha's requirements obviously adds to the cost as well.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 09:10:03 am by David Morison »
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Scott Bolt

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Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
« Reply #112 on: February 23, 2018, 10:25:27 am »

I'd be amazed if the driver was worth that - it gets you a B&C 18TBX100 with change. The photos on the Yamaha website look like Eminence Deltalite series, which come in around $150.

Datapoint on Yamaha speakers: 1x DBR10, gets used for house parties and the like with a sub, so you know they hammer it. No problems so far.

Chris

Yep, an aftermarket speaker for $190 vs OEM at $365.  Still, I doubt anyone would want to put anything other than the OEM woofer in a $900 DSR speaker.  Might be an interesting comparison though if someone were to want to do it, I would be all ears :)
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Kevin Bayersdorfer

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Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
« Reply #113 on: February 23, 2018, 11:18:55 pm »

Just saw this thread (havent been on much). I don't know if any of you remember one of my DSR's going out completely in June, took it into the Local Yamaha service center. They had it two weeks, replaced the board, then it went out in August. It was the first gig with it back since I had purchased a back up. Well in October I emailed the tech and he said the board was back ordered. Well here it is February and still nothing. Maybe I should call Yamaha and escalate my claim or tell them to sent me a new one...Like I said I have a back up so no worries, but festival season will be here soon.
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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
« Reply #114 on: February 24, 2018, 04:47:45 am »

Just being pedantic; the Yammi's are 3" voicecoil so closer to the Kappalite series than the Deltalite, making the comparison $190 rather than $150 (using the price on Emi's own website).

Not that that does anything to change your underlying point - it's still a huge markup.

Obviously, no manufacturer wants random people just buying their spares to use in DIY boxes or anything silly like that, so I understand there being some premium, but 92% does still seem huge.

FWIW,
David.

Edit to add: I'm also fully aware it might not be the stock driver, and any customization to suit Yamaha's requirements obviously adds to the cost as well.

Fair point - hadn't checked the voicecoil diameter. Good catch.
I would hope Yamaha would've added demodulating rings etc etc, but that's not something Eminence does often.

Chris
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Scott Bolt

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Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
« Reply #115 on: February 24, 2018, 06:30:41 am »

Just saw this thread (havent been on much). I don't know if any of you remember one of my DSR's going out completely in June, took it into the Local Yamaha service center. They had it two weeks, replaced the board, then it went out in August. It was the first gig with it back since I had purchased a back up. Well in October I emailed the tech and he said the board was back ordered. Well here it is February and still nothing. Maybe I should call Yamaha and escalate my claim or tell them to sent me a new one...Like I said I have a back up so no worries, but festival season will be here soon.
I can only hope that this is not indicative of normal turn around times.  My tech said the new driver should be there in a couple of weeks ..... which is still quite some time in my book, but seems on the inside of "acceptable".

It doesn't seem plausible that Yamaha has no parts they can ship.  The speaker is still in mass production after all.

As an aside, the techs in the store were amazed at the output and quality of sound of the DSR.  I am guessing they are used to DXR and DBR's (or other similar products from other companies).  Since the issue with my speaker only happens at quite high output (not clipping mind you, but not too far south of where the clip light starts to flicker on either), I turned it up myself to show them the problem.

Their comment was that they had indeed swept the frequency spectrum on the speaker, but not at that volume.  They were afraid they would damage the speaker.

I found this a little strange since I always assumed that as long as I stayed out of solid clip territory (I generally run with only an occasional clip on lower notes in big venues, and far south of clip in most venues), that there was no way to damage the speaker.

In their initial write up, I specifically stated the problem only occurs at higher volumes.  I had hoped that this would be enough to get them on the right track.  I also offered to give them the MP3 that I used to create the problem, but they said a frequency sweep would be enough (obviously not).

I'll update when the driver comes in and I get my speaker back.  Considering that they took the driver out of the cab and it still showed the problem, it seems like a safe bet that replacing the driver will fix the problem.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 06:44:27 am by Scott Bolt »
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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
« Reply #116 on: February 24, 2018, 07:52:33 am »

Their comment was that they had indeed swept the frequency spectrum on the speaker, but not at that volume.  They were afraid they would damage the speaker.

My new article has just gone up - https://www.prosoundweb.com/channels/live-sound/finding-the-limits-pursuing-useful-loudspeaker-specs-including-spl/ where I explore the limits of a speaker that's quite similar to the DSRs. I won't say which speaker it is, since that might be problematic for the manufacturer, but if you can be bothered to go through my posts you'll probably figure it out.

In short, no chance of damaging the drivers with frequency sweeps. They have some pretty comprehensive limiting in there, so you'd have to really really try if you wanted to hurt them. Solid clipping isn't an issue - the RMS limiters will take care of it just fine. I found that if I played a sine tone and left it for a while (with the limit light on), the signal dropped to 10v RMS after a few seconds, and stayed there. That wouldn't be a problem, even for the cheap drivers they used in the test speaker.

Chris
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Dave Garoutte

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Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
« Reply #117 on: February 24, 2018, 01:50:03 pm »

Chris,

Very interesting article!
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Kevin Bayersdorfer

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Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
« Reply #118 on: February 24, 2018, 02:50:47 pm »

I can only hope that this is not indicative of normal turn around times.  My tech said the new driver should be there in a couple of weeks ..... which is still quite some time in my book, but seems on the inside of "acceptable".

It doesn't seem plausible that Yamaha has no parts they can ship.  The speaker is still in mass production after all.

As an aside, the techs in the store were amazed at the output and quality of sound of the DSR.  I am guessing they are used to DXR and DBR's (or other similar products from other companies).  Since the issue with my speaker only happens at quite high output (not clipping mind you, but not too far south of where the clip light starts to flicker on either), I turned it up myself to show them the problem.

Their comment was that they had indeed swept the frequency spectrum on the speaker, but not at that volume.  They were afraid they would damage the speaker.

I found this a little strange since I always assumed that as long as I stayed out of solid clip territory (I generally run with only an occasional clip on lower notes in big venues, and far south of clip in most venues), that there was no way to damage the speaker.

In their initial write up, I specifically stated the problem only occurs at higher volumes.  I had hoped that this would be enough to get them on the right track.  I also offered to give them the MP3 that I used to create the problem, but they said a frequency sweep would be enough (obviously not).

I'll update when the driver comes in and I get my speaker back.  Considering that they took the driver out of the cab and it still showed the problem, it seems like a safe bet that replacing the driver will fix the problem.

No the first board was shipped in a week, the second one Yamaha approved is on back order, that in it's self though is a little unnerving to me.
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
« Reply #119 on: February 25, 2018, 12:42:43 am »

I would hope Yamaha would've added demodulating rings etc etc, but that's not something Eminence does often.

Chris
Actually, Eminence does quite a bit of custom/mod work for manufacturers.  A friend of mine that used to work in the Fender Custom Shop (has his own company nowadays) was getting lots of specialized speakers for various amps from EMI.  He told me that his last task there was to make the HRD sound loud.  So he worked with EMI to make something that would sound loud and impressive in a music store.  Bit different than the speakers they made for him for various Custom Shop amps to get tones he liked, but all in a days work.  I'm sure that if Yamaha wanted a different compliance or cone weight for a product, EMI would mod something for them.  Just because it looks like a stock EMI from the outside I wouldn't count on it.  So many variables like former material or coil length that you can't see that they can mod for an OEM.
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