ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down

Author Topic: Calling All Experts - Can We Be More Helpful and Less Snarky?  (Read 4292 times)

Pat Semeraro

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 35
Calling All Experts - Can We Be More Helpful and Less Snarky?
« on: December 23, 2017, 02:37:20 pm »

This posts is really in 2 parts - first to experts, and second to non-experts who are asking legitimate questions.

To the experts:  Like me, your probably roll your eyes at some of the questions asked, and can easily predict the outcomes of bad advice that is shared.  (That solution will blow up in 10 minutes, that configuration is guaranteed to sound terrible, etc.)

My question to you is this: is there a practical way that we can use our knowledge to help the folks that truly want to improve their rigs, want to sound better and want to learn?  We know that many DJs are a lost cause but the ones asking questions here should be considered a step above the "usual" DJ.

Maybe a sticky that answers common questions or moderating in a way that deletes obviously wrong answers to questions, etc.  We must be able to do something??

To the DJs:  If experts here had a way to provide useful and correct answers to your questions, that didnt always start with an insult, what would that look like?  Better (vs snarky) answers to your questions?  Stickys that explain different things? 

To everyone:  we can all agree that we want to give audiences the best experience possible.  When I was in the AV business we would support DJs for their larger events.  Many of them had never played through a 4-way touring grade rig.  (EAW KF650z/528z UX8800 processed) and it was a real eye opener.  They had never experienced the "feel" of audio at that level during their performance.  (everyone has been to concerts but its different when its their show) 

Every single time, during sound check they would wind up the system a bit and while standing in the dance-floor tell me "its not very loud" or something similar and realize that screaming at the top of their lungs was inaudible...  for many it was the first time they experienced clean and loud at the same time.  We would walk back and forth and discuss coverage, how it was focused and even on the dance floor but dropped off about 10dB as soon as you stepped off.  They were relieved to hear that no attention was required by them regarding levels other than what they wanted to do artistically.  The system would invisibly limit itself and keep them out of trouble.

After nearly every show the DJ would mention that they didn't know particular tracks had a super low drop note or warble tones or something interesting they had never heard thru their own rigs or in the local clubs. 

We as experts cant fault a DJ for not knowing what to listen for if they don't know what to listen for.  Many DJs with bad habits of "running everything in the red" would after using our systems, actually back down after a bit because the rig put so much raw energy into the audience.  Powered speakers with screeching 1" horns are sometimes the result of the DJ just trying to put raw energy into the audience and not having the tools to do it.  Not knowing what real horsepower "feels" like in their hands from a touring grade rig, they just don't know what to ask for or how to move their own systems closer in that direction.   They're looking for energy and power but are stuck with "loud" from screeching 1" horns on powered speakers.  Maybe the rep at the local music store told them their new powered speakers would "rock 1000 people no problem" or any other combination of bad/wrong advice.  Learning the difference between "big" and "loud" changes everything for them.

It was particularly gratifying one time when the DJ said "I can feel the snare drum in my chest yet we can still have a normal conversation.  How is that possible?"   That's how progress begins.  Experts here know damn well that no powered speaker on a stick can do that, regardless of what the brochure says.  Physics dont allow it.

I've also seen (too many times) on corporate shows where the audio op puts the DJ at medium volume, on a 4/1 comp or even 10/1... and walks away for dinner.  Everything sounds terrible, there's no headroom for the DJ's mic, its just bad.  Is that really the image we want to project as a profession just because the DJs attitude was bad or maybe we don't care for their music style?  We're not without sins either even though I see a lot of stones being thrown.

Those are my thoughts, and I hope we can all help each other to do and be better.

Cheers,
Pat Semeraro
« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 04:52:50 pm by Pat Semeraro »
Logged

William Schnake

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 476
    • Schnake Sound & Light
Re: Calling All Experts - Can We Be More Helpful and Less Snarky?
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2017, 07:35:48 pm »

Those are my thoughts, and I hope we can all help each other to do and be better.

Cheers,
Pat Semeraro

Pat, I am not a DJ, nor do I aspire to be one.   What you wrote doesn't just apply to the DJ world, but to all of the pro sound world.  We all need to work harder to help the ones coming up that need advice just like someone helped us.  This is well written and I for one fully agree with what you have written and thank you for taking the time to write it.

Just so you know we do provide equipment for DJ's and Artist from time to time.  Most recently we provided sound for Ginuwine and several other Artist.  We used part of our EAW 850 system.  It sounded great and everyone was respectful and easy to work with.

Thank you again for your post.

Bill
Logged
Bill Schnake - Owner Schnake Sound & Light

Avid/Crown/EAW/EV/Midas/RCF/Shure/Yamaha

schnakesound.com

Pat Semeraro

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 35
Re: Calling All Experts - Can We Be More Helpful and Less Snarky?
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2017, 08:54:58 pm »

Thanks Bill for the kind words and hope 2018 is a great year for your company!
Pat

Pat, I am not a DJ, nor do I aspire to be one.   What you wrote doesn't just apply to the DJ world, but to all of the pro sound world.  We all need to work harder to help the ones coming up that need advice just like someone helped us.  This is well written and I for one fully agree with what you have written and thank you for taking the time to write it.

Just so you know we do provide equipment for DJ's and Artist from time to time.  Most recently we provided sound for Ginuwine and several other Artist.  We used part of our EAW 850 system.  It sounded great and everyone was respectful and easy to work with.

Thank you again for your post.

Bill
Logged

Keith Broughton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2893
  • Toronto
Re: Calling All Experts - Can We Be More Helpful and Less Snarky?
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2017, 07:14:18 am »

You bring up some good points and, for the most part, I see  good reponses are given to well thought out questions from those who donít come in with a chip on the shoulder.
One tip is to keep questions, and comments, as brief and concise as possible so we are not reading a short story to get to the point ;)
Logged
I don't care enough to be apathetic

John Roberts {JR}

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16088
  • Hickory, Mississippi, USA
    • Resotune
Re: Calling All Experts - Can We Be More Helpful and Less Snarky?
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2017, 11:17:40 am »

The value of a professional sound forum is the access to actual "sound professionals". Since these are typically busy people, whose time is valuable they generally do not suffer fools.

The problem with free advice is that you get exactly what you pay for, which can be a rich find here if the professionals are positively engaged, less so if not.

JR
Logged
On the internet people tell you everything "they" know, not the answer to "your" question.....  http://circularscience.com/

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8662
  • Atlanta GA
Re: Calling All Experts - Can We Be More Helpful and Less Snarky?
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2017, 02:05:39 pm »

The value of a professional sound forum is the access to actual "sound professionals". Since these are typically busy people, whose time is valuable they generally do not suffer fools.

The problem with free advice is that you get exactly what you pay for, which can be a rich find here if the professionals are positively engaged, less so if not.

JR
One of the things I like about this forum, is that if you are wrong, you WILL be corrected.

That keeps everything "real" and professional.

It is much less of a "feel good", and more of real information.
Logged
A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

William Schnake

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 476
    • Schnake Sound & Light
Re: Calling All Experts - Can We Be More Helpful and Less Snarky?
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2017, 08:12:35 pm »

One of the things I like about this forum, is that if you are wrong, you WILL be corrected.

That keeps everything "real" and professional.
Ivan, I agree with you that keeping it "real" is a true benefit of this website.  My only comment, which I have made in the LAB more than once over the past 4 or 5 years, is we all have value and that we should treat each other with respect.  I have been guilty of speaking what is on my mind without a filter as many others have.  I just asked that we be respectful with each other regardless if we agree with each other or not.

Merry Christmas.

Bill
Logged
Bill Schnake - Owner Schnake Sound & Light

Avid/Crown/EAW/EV/Midas/RCF/Shure/Yamaha

schnakesound.com

Dennis Wiggins

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 684
Re: Calling All Experts - Can We Be More Helpful and Less Snarky?
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2017, 08:28:03 pm »

Like me, your probably roll your eyes at some of the questions asked... I hope we can all help each other to do and be better.

Great topic!

What is a DJ?  For me, starting around 1978, it's playing music that really affects people. I've always run it up and down by learning to read the crowd and presenting what get's 'em going.  That hasn't changed in what will very soon be 40 years of doing it.  I flip my equipment about every 5 years, while it still has some resale value.

I agree, the snarkiness with no useful purpose has got to go.  However, I believe it is a very important part of 'humouring' the point home.  If you are overly sensitive about hearing the truth, then you should look elsewhere for advice.  It doesn't and it shouldn't ever get 'sugar-coated'.  Every time you crank up over 95 dBs it becomes very real and has responsibilities (Wow - What a word!). This is even more true when you have an audience, whether they are paying or not.

I have always been small potatoes and am not a 'beat-mix-backtrack-clubbin'DJ (that's why I stay out of that forum). However, I have been always been committed to the delivery of quality sounds for just plain people.

...about forming questions.  What is the equipment? - What is the problem? - What are you willing to sacarifice (spelled Ego + $$$) to get it right?  Many times it 'don't cost one thin dime'.

-Dennis

« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 09:17:41 pm by Dennis Wiggins »
Logged

Cailen Waddell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1376
Re: Calling All Experts - Can We Be More Helpful and Less Snarky?
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2017, 09:24:51 pm »

One of the things I like about this forum, is that if you are wrong, you WILL be corrected.

That keeps everything "real" and professional.

It is much less of a "feel good", and more of real information.
Exactly - I have friends and family that make me feel Good about myself - this forum is where I learn and occasionally get to share something Iíve learned.  To all, Donít come here for validation and you wonít be disappointed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Logged

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19133
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: Calling All Experts - Can We Be More Helpful and Less Snarky?
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2017, 11:43:12 pm »

As one of the more acerbic members here... uh... I never thought I'd say this but "grow a pair" if it regards whatever the question or comment was.

You needn't put up with personal insults or professional disparagement but your emotions, intellect and experience *will* be challenged, perhaps not all at once or for the same reasons, but it's gonna happen no matter how politely we tip-toe around the horse shit manure.
Logged
"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Dennis Wiggins

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 684
Re: Calling All Experts - Can We Be More Helpful and Less Snarky?
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2017, 11:46:30 am »

As one of the more acerbic members here... .

a∑cer∑bic

... of a comment or style of speaking) sharp and forthright.

synonyms:   sharp, sarcastic, sardonic, mordant, trenchant, cutting, razor-edged, biting, piercing, stinging, searing, scathing, caustic, bitter, acrimonious, astringent, abrasive, harsh, wounding, hurtful, unkind, cruel, virulent, vitriolic, venomous, malicious, vicious; informal; bitchy; rareacidulous, mordacious

That about covers it!   ;)

-Dennis
« Last Edit: December 26, 2017, 10:56:43 am by Dennis Wiggins »
Logged

James Hennessy

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24
Re: Calling All Experts - Can We Be More Helpful and Less Snarky?
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2017, 01:49:07 pm »

I came here a year ago being as green as green could be when it comes to pro audio.  I still have volumes to learn but I'm infinitely more fluent in the subject than I was at the start.  People have been pretty polite and helpful whenever I have asked for help.  It seems like as long as you don't act like an ignorant know it all and are ready to listen to other opinions you'll be fine.

I do get why DJs have the reputation they do with the sound tech community.  The requirements to enter the field of DJing are lower and lower each year as computers and technology make it easier and cheaper to access.  Unfortunately there's a lot of cringeworthy examples you can point to online that make all DJs look bad by association to people that don't know much about the field. 

At the same time dance music is growing very fast.  There's more of everything, both the good and the bad.  Most big cities will have groups of people that are committed to doing things the right way.  Theyre probably the ones actually making money at it.  When you are working with these people you can expect them to respect your equipment and listen to your instructions.
Logged

Pat Semeraro

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 35
Re: Calling All Experts - Can We Be More Helpful and Less Snarky?
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2017, 12:37:47 am »

Friends, everything I've read here is both encouraging and inspiring. 

Like many "old timers" I built speakers in my parents garage as a teenager to get  through beginners gigs.  Then Pro gigs.  I moved on to buying and modding/upgrading.  I earned a music degree.  I payed for it by working as a DJ, while also playing in 3 working bands.  I've spent time onstage and time backstage.  From both places it has sometimes felt like us against them.  We can help change that.

7 years at one of Orlando's large theme parks was the education of a lifetime and I moved on to owning, then selling my production company.  I've hung Meyer Leos and Lyons in stadiums and I've operated one sm58 and one Mackie 450 on a stick for tiny meetings.  And I've supported hundreds of DJ shows from small clubs to ballrooms to stadiums.  At home I listen to tube electronics and ribbon speakers.

There are some things I've learned that might be useful to others.  Many of you have incredible knowledge and know things that someday I hope to learn.  We have the power to help each other.

Probably the biggest difference between DJs and audio pros is DJs blindly expect everything to work and we plan as if everything will fail.

To Ivan's point, you have to blow some stuff up to understand gear's limitations.  People joining the party now do not have the benefit of our journey of working with analog, building speakers, experimenting and measuring different crossover points,  limiter settings and driver delay, big iron to switch mode to class D amps, working with large arrays, then line arrays, and figuring everything out as we went along.

At the pro level now, software tells us how to configure a system and fir dsp makes it sound good right out of the box and not blow up.  At the MI level, every manufacture makes claims that are outrageous at best and disastrous at worst.  That is the gear most DJs are stuck using.  Many of the clubs they work at have sound systems so bad they defy description.  That is the world they know.

I'm hopeful that when we see questions like "I'm playing a gig for 1000 people, will my 15" powered subwoofer be enough or do I need two?" that before answering, we try to understand where the OP is coming from.  They don't know what they don't know.

WE have the power to make the world a better place with our knowledge if its package the right way.  Not everyone will listen, but a few might.  And that is enough to matter.

Cheers,
Pat



Those are my thoughts, and I hope we can all help each other to do and be better.

Cheers,
Pat Semeraro
« Last Edit: December 27, 2017, 12:40:09 am by Pat Semeraro »
Logged

James Hennessy

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24
Re: Calling All Experts - Can We Be More Helpful and Less Snarky?
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2017, 07:27:26 pm »

I came here a year ago being as green as green could be when it comes to pro audio.  I still have volumes to learn but I'm infinitely more fluent in the subject than I was at the start.  People have been pretty polite and helpful whenever I have asked for help.  It seems like as long as you don't act like an ignorant know it all and are ready to listen to other opinions you'll be fine.

I do get why DJs have the reputation they do with the sound tech community.  The requirements to enter the field of DJing are lower and lower each year as computers and technology make it easier and cheaper to access.  Unfortunately there's a lot of cringeworthy examples you can point to online that make all DJs look bad by association to people that don't know much about the field. 

At the same time dance music is growing very fast.  There's more of everything, both the good and the bad.  Most big cities will have groups of people that are committed to doing things the right way.  Theyre probably the ones actually making money at it.  When you are working with these people you can expect them to respect your equipment and listen to your instructions.

I saw this NYT opinion piece about DJs and reminded me of this thread.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/30/opinion/sunday/dj-save-your-life.html
Logged

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19133
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: Calling All Experts - Can We Be More Helpful and Less Snarky?
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2018, 02:55:54 pm »

"Calling Occupants of Interplanetary Craft" (the Klaatu original, not the Carpenters cover).  /snark
Logged
"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
 


Page created in 0.049 seconds with 17 queries.