ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Down

Author Topic: Control Network on Primary and Secondary Dante Switches  (Read 4803 times)

Benjamin Krumholz

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 101
Control Network on Primary and Secondary Dante Switches
« on: December 22, 2017, 01:40:25 pm »

Hey All,

Heres the situation.. I am talking about only control network here NOT DANTE.. Simplified setup..

One control computer (HiQ net, Yamaha control).
Two SG300 Switches Switch 1= PRIMARY  Switch2= secondary.. ( Switches are programmed as Yamaha suggests( VLAN 1 = Control, Vlan2=Dante, Fiber ports are TRUNKED)
Connected to, Another Two Cisco Switches..
One network amplifier or console.. ( Control only not talking DANTE or any digital audio)

So i connect Computer to VLAN 1 of the primary switch and Amplifier to VLAN 1 of the other primary switch... What happens when I lose the link between the Primary switchs? Do i have to move both the computer and Amplifier to the secondary switch?

My question is, Can I loop VLAN 1 on both the Primary and Secondary Switches?? I get that I can use a secondary network adapter to connect to the secondary switch, but what do i do on the amp/console end?
Can i put a switch infront of the amp/ console and send the signal into Both Primary and secondary switches? Will this Freak out the network?

Thanks,
Ben
Logged

Rob Spence

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2821
  • Boston Metro North/West
    • Lynx Audio Services
Re: Control Network on Primary and Secondary Dante Switches
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2017, 02:09:03 pm »

I canít answer the technical question you have but, productions that need secondary networks, in general, in my opinion, also have gear that will connect to both primary and secondary networks.

Analyze what the impact to you is in the event of a failure. In your case, you would loose control, but not necessarily audio if the audio path is via Dante and all the Dante enabled audio devices support primarily and secondary networks.
So, what happens for you if you loose the control computer connection?

For me, I am not changing things with a control computer during a show, so, perhaps I may not care.

Anyway, $.02 worth of food for thought


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Logged
rob at lynxaudioservices dot com

Dealer for: AKG, Allen & Heath, Ashley, Astatic, Audix, Blue Microphones, CAD, Chauvet, Community, Countryman, Crown, DBX, Electro-Voice, FBT, Furman, Heil, Horizon, Intellistage, JBL, Lab Gruppen, Mid Atlantic, On Stage Stands, Pelican, Peterson Tuners, Presonus, ProCo, QSC, Radial, RCF, Sennheiser, Shure, SKB, Soundcraft, TC Electronics, Telex, Whirlwind and others

Nathan Riddle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1128
  • Niceville, FL
    • Nailed Productions
Re: Control Network on Primary and Secondary Dante Switches
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2017, 02:42:50 pm »

Look into Spanning Tree and BGP. Loopguard for network redundancy for your data layer.

In laymens terms.

Create trunks with all your vlans between all primary/backup switches.
Turn on loopguard between primary/backup switches.

It won't protect against the device or switch going down on the primary side, but it will protect from the primary fiber going down.

https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/support/docs/lan-switching/spanning-tree-protocol/5234-5.html
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 02:45:29 pm by Nathan Riddle »
Logged
I'm just a guy trying to do the next right thing.

This business is for people with too much energy for desk jobs and too much brain for labor jobs. - Scott Helmke

Scott Holtzman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4733
  • Ghost AV - Avon Lake, OH
    • Ghost Audio Visual Systems, LLC
Re: Control Network on Primary and Secondary Dante Switches
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2017, 03:37:05 pm »

BGP is layer 3 and Spanning Tree is not the way I would go.

If the switches support stacking just create a pair of stack links and be done with it. 

If the switches don't do that create a LAG or link aggregation group with vlan trunking.  All vlans in each switch will be linked.

Any devices with two uplinks plug one in each switch.  For a critical control computer you can add a second NIC and join them to a LAG group.  One link per switch.

This gives you host level high availability at layer 2

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

Logged
Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman
River Delta Audio is now:

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
Cleveland OH
www.ghostav.rocks

Nathan Riddle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1128
  • Niceville, FL
    • Nailed Productions
Re: Control Network on Primary and Secondary Dante Switches
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2017, 03:59:15 pm »

BGP is layer 3 and Spanning Tree is not the way I would go.

If the switches support stacking just create a pair of stack links and be done with it. 

If the switches don't do that create a LAG or link aggregation group with vlan trunking.  All vlans in each switch will be linked.

Any devices with two uplinks plug one in each switch.  For a critical control computer you can add a second NIC and join them to a LAG group.  One link per switch.

This gives you host level high availability at layer 2

BGP - Yeah - I mean for research's sake, not for his application. [I should have clarified]

Wouldn't that during failover cause issues with Dante switchover as the switches are handling the Dante switch too instead of Dante handling it at the device?

I guess you could put the backup Dante on Vlan 3 so they never touch... (which should be done either way).

Scott, when you get a break later would you mind explaining the benefits of your suggestion as opposed to spanning tree?

- A cursory glance at the differences is stacking is better for management and link aggregation is easier?
- I'd be more concerned about performance than ease of setup as both seem fairly straightforward.
Logged
I'm just a guy trying to do the next right thing.

This business is for people with too much energy for desk jobs and too much brain for labor jobs. - Scott Helmke

brian maddox

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1773
  • HeyYahWon! ttsss! ttsss!
Re: Control Network on Primary and Secondary Dante Switches
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2017, 04:12:30 pm »

Hey All,

Heres the situation.. I am talking about only control network here NOT DANTE.. Simplified setup..

One control computer (HiQ net, Yamaha control).
Two SG300 Switches Switch 1= PRIMARY  Switch2= secondary.. ( Switches are programmed as Yamaha suggests( VLAN 1 = Control, Vlan2=Dante, Fiber ports are TRUNKED)
Connected to, Another Two Cisco Switches..
One network amplifier or console.. ( Control only not talking DANTE or any digital audio)

So i connect Computer to VLAN 1 of the primary switch and Amplifier to VLAN 1 of the other primary switch... What happens when I lose the link between the Primary switchs? Do i have to move both the computer and Amplifier to the secondary switch?

My question is, Can I loop VLAN 1 on both the Primary and Secondary Switches?? I get that I can use a secondary network adapter to connect to the secondary switch, but what do i do on the amp/console end?
Can i put a switch infront of the amp/ console and send the signal into Both Primary and secondary switches? Will this Freak out the network?

Thanks,
Ben

In my experience, Dante Primary and Secondary networks do NOT like seeing each other on the same network. Now if the greater networking minds available here can tell you how to 'bridge' the two networks physically while simultaneously making sure that the Dante portions of those networks remain oblivious to each other's presence, then all should be well.  But that if far above my expertise level....
Logged
brian maddox
bdmaudio@gmail.com

'...do not trifle with the affairs of dragons...

       ....for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup...'

Benjamin Krumholz

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 101
Re: Control Network on Primary and Secondary Dante Switches
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2017, 07:17:46 pm »

If the switches support stacking just create a pair of stack links and be done with it. 

If the switches don't do that create a LAG or link aggregation group with vlan trunking.  All vlans in each switch will be linked.


From what I am reading, it does not sound like the cisco supports " staking" as you suggest.. They do suggest to create a LAG..

So do the switches still get connected by a UTP cable between the " TRUNK PORTS? How is this different than just putting a cable between the ports that are on the same Vlan? I do not access the network via the Trunk port.. I always connect the computer and control device directly to the VLAN port, not to the trunk port..
 
Need to do more reading..
Logged

Scott Holtzman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4733
  • Ghost AV - Avon Lake, OH
    • Ghost Audio Visual Systems, LLC
Re: Control Network on Primary and Secondary Dante Switches
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2017, 08:28:54 pm »

From what I am reading, it does not sound like the cisco supports " staking" as you suggest.. They do suggest to create a LAG..

So do the switches still get connected by a UTP cable between the " TRUNK PORTS? How is this different than just putting a cable between the ports that are on the same Vlan? I do not access the network via the Trunk port.. I always connect the computer and control device directly to the VLAN port, not to the trunk port..
 
Need to do more reading..
You sure the SG's are not stackable?  I try to stay away from the the small business series.  I just run into too many limitations compared to IoS based devices.

Anyway, for the Dante devices with dual network interfaces, yes they need to be in their own vlan and hardware segmentation is important.

I thought we were talking about single interface devices and how to keep them up during a switch failure.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

Logged
Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman
River Delta Audio is now:

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
Cleveland OH
www.ghostav.rocks

Benjamin Krumholz

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 101
Re: Control Network on Primary and Secondary Dante Switches
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2017, 09:27:12 pm »


I thought we were talking about single interface devices and how to keep them up during a switch failure.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

We are talking about a single interface device.. But on the control side not the dante side.. So a CL 5 has 3 network ports on it.. A Primary Dante, a secondary dante, and a LAN port. The Primary and Secondary ports are plugged into their respective switches on VLAN 2.. Can I plug the LAN port on the CL5 into a dumb switch and then send 2 cables into VLAN 1 of BOTH Primary and Secondary switches? Or can I just Loop VLAN 1 together on the switches? Since my Dante/ VLAN2 ports are excluded from the VLAN 1 ports wont that maintain the " hardware segmentation"?
Logged

Mac Kerr

  • Old enough to know better
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6100
  • Audio Plumber
Re: Control Network on Primary and Secondary Dante Switches
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2017, 09:52:47 pm »

BGP is layer 3 and Spanning Tree is not the way I would go.

If the switches support stacking just create a pair of stack links and be done with it. 

If the switches don't do that create a LAG or link aggregation group with vlan trunking.  All vlans in each switch will be linked.

Any devices with two uplinks plug one in each switch.  For a critical control computer you can add a second NIC and join them to a LAG group.  One link per switch.

This gives you host level high availability at layer 2

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

Linking primary and secondary Dante networks will crash the audio network. They must be on totally separate networks.

Mac
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Up
 


Page created in 0.044 seconds with 23 queries.