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[Shane Dawson]

Hi Everyone,

DJ Been doing events with sound for quite a few years, about a year ago got into lighting with a basic 256A DMX Controller controlling 4 PAR LED Lights on tbars at a small extra rate and frankly, haven't been interested in going much further, I use my bigger contacts for anything more complicated and either do sound or just DJ.

HOWEVER...kinda got myself into hot water with a new years eve gig, I though had quoted enough over market to turn them away but ended up with gig as they were friends of friends.

None of my regular guys were available but had equipment to hand. So I have ended up with two 3-4m truss towers, 10-12 PAR LED 54x3 cans, 2 moving heads(which i have never used) and a 256 address controller to run it all. It's a high end villa with minimal power so I've opted for a 3 phase 60A Diesel Generator to run it all going through my power box and in turn through lights(sound powered same way)

Forget brands, I'm on an asian island where most stuff comes from china.

Venue isnt huge rooftop pool villa type of place. DMX Controller has 2 outputs in need but I'm thinking I won't need..

I'm basically looking for advice on the best way to do this thing.

I was going to set up 2-4 pars bolted to each truss tower then moving heads on top of each one kinda either side of dance floor. Then 4 more pars on a winch t bar at opposite corner of area kinda sitting quite high.

Cabling wise I wanted to run one channel from DMX controller(1 universe right?) about 10m to a dmx splitter(next to first truss). From that splitter one cable maybe another 10m to 4 pars on t bar and other cable another 20m to 2nd truss..

Here come the newb questions:

1. Is the above setup ideal, any alternative suggestions?
2. How does a splitter effect DMX addresses programmed into controller, if at all
3. Is the splitter even needed with these distances, does it help? assuming I'm using good quality DMX cabling. Better to run 2 universe/channel? I have read up to 300 or 400 feet is fine
4.DMX Terminators, worthwhile making a few for a setup like this or not?
5.Any potential issues with running moving heads on same line as par cans?assume not as it is a separate fixure right? just need to make sure i allow more room in address programming than a par can

Apologies if i sound like an absolute idiot, I've done some of this stuff before but this is alot more than I'm used to and just want to cover all bases

Any reasonable suggestions or alternatives are very welcome.

And no there isn't anyone else around to do job, I'm stuck with it and too far down path with customer to pull out. Its a New Years Eve gig and no matter what they pay no one else is around

Thanks in advance,

Shane

[Jeff Lelko]

Hi Everyone..

Hi Shane, I’m sure we can help but before any replies can be given you’ll need to change your displayed user name to your actual first and last name per the forum rules you agreed to when signing up.  Thanks!

[Shane Dawson]

Hi Shane, I’m sure we can help but before any replies can be given you’ll need to change your displayed user name to your actual first and last name per the forum rules you agreed to when signing up.  Thanks!

Thanks Jeff, have changed it already. Sorry first time in a forum.

[Jeff Lelko]

Thanks Shane.  So here’s a more useful response...

As I’m sure you already know, lighting is as much an art as it is a skill, so barring safety issues with power and rigging there aren’t too many “wrong” things you can do, unlike in the world of sound.  The best advice I can give you is to set things up and see what looks good to you.  If you’re lighting a band you have to take certain aspects of lighting design into account so that the talent looks “normal” and well-lit, but if you’re just DJing you can be a lot more creative.  The setup you described is perfectly fine if it fits the venue and the look you’re trying to achieve.  So on to your questions:

1 - See above.

2 - A splitter won’t affect addressing.  Furthermore, the board itself doesn’t do the addressing.  It just streams out data on whatever channels it’s capable of controlling (and you “patch” these channels to fixture profiles, on the nicer boards at least).  It’s the fixtures that need to be addressed, and the fixtures are incapable of knowing what else in on the daisy chain with them, barring the types of fixtures that are capable of sharing firmware, programming settings, etc.  The only times you generally need a splitter is when you have more than 32ish fixtures on a daisy chain, need to get fixtures in places that would prohibit a single chain from being practical, and for separating fixtures that either don’t play well together or use the DMX cable for other purposes.  There are a handful of other reasons, but these are the main ones.

3 - No, your distances should be fine.

4 - It can’t hurt, though I’ve never had a repeatable problem that using a Terminator has solved.  For how little they cost it’s nice to have a few on hand just in case.

5 - No, and you’re right - just figure out your address allocations ahead of time.  Fixtures on a daisy chain don’t need to be in consecutive order.  Address them so that they make sense and go from there.  The exception to this is if the moving heads and LEDs don’t play well together.  You’ll notice the glitching right away, and if this happens then using a splitter (or your second DMX output) will generally correct the problem.  I’ve noticed this sort of thing more often on the cheap generic fixtures, but I’ve seen it on name-brand too. 

In summary, try to keep things as simple as possible.  The more “stuff” you put into a system, the more opportunities for problems you’ll have.  Also, unless your movers and LEDs are above what the average person would use for such an event, I’d wager all this can fit on a single 20A circuit, definitely 2. 

Hope all this helps!

[Shane Dawson]

Thanks Shane.  So here’s a more useful response...

As I’m sure you already know, lighting is as much an art as it is a skill, so barring safety issues with power and rigging there aren’t too many “wrong” things you can do, unlike in the world of sound.  The best advice I can give you is to set things up and see what looks good to you.  If you’re lighting a band you have to take certain aspects of lighting design into account so that the talent looks “normal” and well-lit, but if you’re just DJing you can be a lot more creative.  The setup you described is perfectly fine if it fits the venue and the look you’re trying to achieve.  So on to your questions:

1 - See above.

2 - A splitter won’t affect addressing.  Furthermore, the board itself doesn’t do the addressing.  It just streams out data on whatever channels it’s capable of controlling (and you “patch” these channels to fixture profiles, on the nicer boards at least).  It’s the fixtures that need to be addressed, and the fixtures are incapable of knowing what else in on the daisy chain with them, barring the types of fixtures that are capable of sharing firmware, programming settings, etc.  The only times you generally need a splitter is when you have more than 32ish fixtures on a daisy chain, need to get fixtures in places that would prohibit a single chain from being practical, and for separating fixtures that either don’t play well together or use the DMX cable for other purposes.  There are a handful of other reasons, but these are the main ones.

3 - No, your distances should be fine.

4 - It can’t hurt, though I’ve never had a repeatable problem that using a Terminator has solved.  For how little they cost it’s nice to have a few on hand just in case.

5 - No, and you’re right - just figure out your address allocations ahead of time.  Fixtures on a daisy chain don’t need to be in consecutive order.  Address them so that they make sense and go from there.  The exception to this is if the moving heads and LEDs don’t play well together.  You’ll notice the glitching right away, and if this happens then using a splitter (or your second DMX output) will generally correct the problem.  I’ve noticed this sort of thing more often on the cheap generic fixtures, but I’ve seen it on name-brand too. 

In summary, try to keep things as simple as possible.  The more “stuff” you put into a system, the more opportunities for problems you’ll have.  Also, unless your movers and LEDs are above what the average person would use for such an event, I’d wager all this can fit on a single 20A circuit, definitely 2. 

Hope all this helps!

Thanks Jeff, legend! exactly what I needed, a no bs response to some very simple questions that I hope will now help other 'fresher' guys on here just starting out and afraid to post without being persecuted like on other forums.

Will be sure to frequent here for future learning curves.

[Jeff Lelko]

Thanks Jeff, legend! exactly what I needed, a no bs response to some very simple questions that I hope will now help other 'fresher' guys on here just starting out and afraid to post without being persecuted like on other forums.

Will be sure to frequent here for future learning curves.

No worries Shane, everyone here was a beginner at some point, and one could argue that we’re all still learners too.  At least I am!  As long as you come willing to learn there will be no shortage of people willing to help!  I’m sure a few others will chime in here too and offer further insight and elaboration, but lighting at the very core level is actually very simple.  Start with where you’re comfortable and grow from there.  The best thing you can do is spend a day just playing with the equipment and experimenting with different techniques.  That goes for techniques with fixture placement, programming approach, and the different types of “looks” you can get from the units you have at your disposal.  Generally speaking there’s very little you can do to damage anything, so don’t be afraid to play around.  If you need some creative ideas, just turn to your favorite touring bands and go from there!  Best of luck with the gig and don’t be afraid to ask more questions!

[Jerome Malsack]

Here is my setup on the cheap.   10 foot DJ I beam truss,  Two T stands out front of the band.  top of the T is 4 white LED Par 38 on Dimmer pack set to relay mode on or off  Universe 1.  LED does not dim well.   Bottom of the T is two par64 LED DMX  on Universe 2.  10 foot DJ truss has 2 sets of 4 halogen Par 46 on dimmer packs each on universe 1.  (flood the audience or blinders).  Under the 10 foot truss is 1 master to 3 slave moon lights.  Near each leg of the truss is two short T tops with one Par56 LED DMX pointing down to a drummer or center stage Universe 2.  One  ADJ  Accu Spot 250 mover on Universe 2. One Dome led on Universe 2. 

The controller is Universe 1  Stage Setter 8 to control the white lights on top and manually follow solo or leads.  Works like the DJ mixer sliding from x to y.
 
the Unverse 2 is computer driven with usb to dmx.  running the smart lights.

Universe 3 is another controller but running the effects.  Hazer,  Fog, and fans on dimmers.

Universe 4 is a strobe on a chauvet 751 strobe control that gives me audio strobe, single shots, and flash rate control at the control desk.  One 70 watt strobe on the top center of the truss.   Computer can stobe some of the smart lights also but not as much freedom on the controls during a live show.  If I find 2 more of the 70 watt strobes they will be on the two T's in front of the stage facing the stage and not behind the stage facing out. 

I have found that some of the cheap wireless DMX is workable to remove some of the long cable runs.  1 to 3  and 1 to 4 receivers in use on universe 1 and universe 2.   

I use terminators also.   Look up http://www.elationlighting.com/dmx-101-hand-book
Universe 3 is DMX Operator from elation. 

each universe is running on its own cable chain.  The universes are not connected together. 

I also have in my gear a cheap DMX splitter.  MCM electronics.   http://www.newark.com/stellar-labs/dmx-split8/8-way-isolated-dmx-splitter-3/dp/65W3273
This has worked for me but it is not 19 inch rack mount.  Also the incoming signal is on the side, with a pass through output that must have a working DMX light plugged into it. 
I can put this near my truss and connect other smart lights to the splitter and reduce error and trouble shooting. 

[Jerome Malsack]

I have the two T's able to be run on car battery and power inverter (400 watts) for plays and bands in the park at evenings. 
Also with the DMX wireless connections.   Lights come with a pattern of light 5 degrees to 60 degrees.  I have the 8 on the truss with 5 degree beams.
and the 4 on each T have 30 degree beams.   I typically operate with the T's at 20 feet to 30 feet out on 45 degrees to center stage.
 
The white lights allow the artist to be seen and not getting lost in the darkness.  as you move from one color to another blues and reds you will see some of the bands tend to be lost in the dark.   pick what you like and work that.   

[Paul G. OBrien]

My thoughts on these questions.
1. That setup sounds fine, I too like to get fixtures up high on stands as they tend to produce better results that way.
2. Splitter doesn't affect anything.
3. Splitter is not needed but it can make your cabling job easier and save some cable. If you are doing an event where you have fixtures off to both sides of your mix position and you don't have a splitter you have to run cable all the way down to the end of one side and then come all the back to link in the other side. With a splitter you just have a single run down each side. I just recently picked up a rack mount splitter to install with my controller and it has proven to be so handy I'm thinking I'll get a few smaller versions I can hang on a truss or stand.
4. Terminators are worth having, you won't always need them but they will fix some problems that you encounter.
5. No issues. If your controller doesn't have any moving head specific progamming built in such as movement macros or a shape generator then this event will expose it's limitations. Most moving heads have some kind of built-in programming but there will be little or no motion control on lowend movers and you will find they spend a lot of time pointed everywhere but the dance floor. Just know that there are lots of options out there now in hardware and software controllers that do a much better job with movers and don't cost a lot of money, so if you find yourself wanting something better in the new year you will get plenty of suggestions.

Wireless DMX is also starting to become quite useful for these entertainment style(DJ) events as well, I now have 16 wireless flat pars that really save a lot of time and hastle at setup so that may be something you want to look into in the future. A splitter helps with this too as it allows me to run a partially hard wired and partially wireless setup from a single controller.

[Dave Garoutte]

I would definitely look into wireless connections.
You can set the transmitter at the controller and a receiver at each location and just cable between each fixture there.
This eliminates a lot of vulnerable cable and does the splitting for you.

[ProSoundWeb Community]