ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Down

Author Topic: Upgrading Drivers in Cheap Stage Monitors  (Read 1453 times)

Jack Arnott

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 122
Re: Upgrading Drivers in Cheap Stage Monitors
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2017, 02:38:48 pm »

Sometimes it's fun to try to out-smart a problem with basic component upgrades. But replacing drivers just doesn't make sense to me.
 
You could remove a significant portion of your rig (amps, rackspace, cables, etc...) by just upgrading to cheap powered wedges. Yes it'll cost a bit more, but you'll feel the weight reduction, hear the sound quality bump, and enjoy shorter setup times.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk
You are trying to outsmart the OP by projecting your situation into the conversation.

death metal shows in dive bars and DIY warehouse shows, these are great for catching beers and supporting musicians' dirty shoes.

This is not the right environment for powered speakers
Logged

Jack Arnott

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 122
Re: Upgrading Drivers in Cheap Stage Monitors
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2017, 02:51:10 pm »

I think the weakest link will be the passive crossover.
I like passives, as they make for a very fast, repeatable, and simpler setup. But compression drivers in general need a lot of processing to be useably flat in frequency response. Ideally, the passive crossover would be designed for your speaker, horn, driver, box combination, but that would put the economics out of wack on this project.
Logged

Rick Powell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 626
Re: Upgrading Drivers in Cheap Stage Monitors
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2017, 03:24:45 pm »

For less than $150 per monitor, you could bypass the horn in your existing monitor and go coax with Eminence CX-12 LF driver, Eminence ASD-1001 screw-in HF driver, and an Eminence 2.5 kHz crossover. It should be an improvement over what you have, and not a whole lot of money, even if it doesn't sound exactly like a Microwedge.
Logged

Augustine Ortiz

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9
Re: Upgrading Drivers in Cheap Stage Monitors
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2017, 04:06:32 pm »

For less than $150 per monitor, you could bypass the horn in your existing monitor and go coax with Eminence CX-12 LF driver, Eminence ASD-1001 screw-in HF driver, and an Eminence 2.5 kHz crossover. It should be an improvement over what you have, and not a whole lot of money, even if it doesn't sound exactly like a Microwedge.

I saw this in my searching around!  Is Coax that much better?  And how is the SPL handling?  I have never used a Coax monitor but I hear it is better for feedback and coverage.
Logged

duane massey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1372
Re: Upgrading Drivers in Cheap Stage Monitors
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2017, 04:49:30 pm »

Personally I think you are on the right path for YOUR situation. I personally wouldn't go any lower than 2k, but the low point should be determined both by the driver's limitations and the cut-off freg of the horn. Eminence makes great cost-effective woofers, but I'd consider either PRV or Selenium for a driver before I would other choices.
I agree with your desire to DIY, as it fits your goals.
Logged
Duane Massey
Technician, musician, stubborn old guy
Houston, Texas

Rick Powell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 626
Re: Upgrading Drivers in Cheap Stage Monitors
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2017, 04:59:21 pm »

I saw this in my searching around!  Is Coax that much better?  And how is the SPL handling?  I have never used a Coax monitor but I hear it is better for feedback and coverage.

I built four DIY monitors using B&C 12FCX76 coaxials and XO-4 crossovers, which cost about 3x what the Eminence components would cost.

https://soundforums.net/forum/low-earth-orbit/diy-audio/268-coaxial-wedge-collaboration/page16

The cabinet ("Smithers wedge") was designed mainly for vocal reinforcement. Not a lot of low end. 
https://soundforums.net/forum/low-earth-orbit/diy-audio/3768-free-monitor-plan-12-coaxial-smithers-wedge-by-michael-smithers

They sound great. Some people think that coax'es are more focused having a single point of sound; I have heard great and not so great coax'es as well as separate component monitors, I think a good design and good components is the most important thing. I wouldn't throw $400 apiece of B&C into a Seismic cabinet though.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 12:15:41 am by Rick Powell »
Logged

Art Welter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1173
Re: Upgrading Drivers in Cheap Stage Monitors
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2017, 05:05:00 pm »

I saw this in my searching around!  Is Coax that much better?  And how is the SPL handling?  I have never used a Coax monitor but I hear it is better for feedback and coverage.
Augustine,

Cheap coax may be slightly "better" than your cheap drivers, but still a lateral move- not much bang for the buck.

Between 1997 and 2016 I worked in the same area as you (Albuquerque, Madrid, Santa Fe) built several different monitor designs using Eminence drivers, built redesigned, and re-built crossovers on one set of 8 two times, for a very slight improvement taking around 40 hours of work each time...

I found the differences in Eminence PSD 2002 and APT HF to be easily +/- 3dB between units (even brand new)- if you get the wedges flat (or "good") sounding, then swap them, you will have 6 dB peaks or dips, a huge difference.
The differences in EQ needed between the wedge components was far greater than the improvement made from one crossover design to the other.

Inconsistency is a big problem, especially with cheap (and abused) gear.
If you number (or letter) each of your monitors for it's stage position, take time to equalize them properly (preferably outdoors), and then use them in the same mix/EQ/ position each gig, you will only need to make minor adjustments for the stage sound, save time on set up, and get far better results.
Inconsistency in microphone sound can be a big problem also, better results if you also use the same vocal mic with the same set of wedges.

Art



« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 05:07:14 pm by Art Welter »
Logged

Stephen Kirby

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2523
Re: Upgrading Drivers in Cheap Stage Monitors
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2017, 06:21:31 pm »

I think the OP is trying to come up with more durable but cheap (near disposable) wedges for adverse situations.  I might even go so far as to mess up the LF by painting the cones with silicone to postpone their eventual beer soaked demise.

I like Rick's suggestion.  At least it is a turnkey solution.  Perfect LF is probably less an issue when just trying to get someone's screaming over a couple of RectumFryers.
Logged

Dave Pluke

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 576
    • BIGG GRIN Productions
Re: Upgrading Drivers in Cheap Stage Monitors
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2017, 08:57:37 pm »

Plus the resale on these Seismics is total crap.

At the risk of pointing out the obvious, there is a reason for that...

I once acquired a Seismic guitar cabinet and it was very poorly constructed.  Too thin of wood, speaker cutouts looked like they were made with a drywall hole saw and the whole thing creaked and bent out of square when picked up by the handles.  Hopefully, your wedges are built better.

It's a "silk purse / sow's ear" situation, but improving the drivers and crossover *might* make a noticeable difference.  I am a fan of Eminence Deltas.  No need to splurge on the PRO version.

Dave

Logged
...an analog man in a digital world [tm]

Mark Oakley

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 132
    • Oakley Audio
Re: Upgrading Drivers in Cheap Stage Monitors
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2017, 09:32:54 pm »

I once acquired a Seismic guitar cabinet and it was very poorly constructed.  Too thin of wood, speaker cutouts looked like they were made with a drywall hole saw and the whole thing creaked and bent out of square when picked up by the handles.  Hopefully, your wedges are built better.

I was also going to mention that 1/2 plywood is too thin for a box of this size. Some internal bracing may help with resonances and overall box integrity.

-Mark
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Up
 


Page created in 0.039 seconds with 17 queries.