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Author Topic: DSP PROCESSOR HELP  (Read 1109 times)

Doga Sagun

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DSP PROCESSOR HELP
« on: November 23, 2017, 03:56:47 pm »

Can anyone help me how to set dsp parameters (limiter ,compressor ,phase and delay) , i need technical information How to set these settings.

2x VOID CYCLONE 55
1x MARTIN S18
1x CREST AUDIO CA6 FOR VOID CYCLONE
1x CREST AUDIO CA9 FOR MARTIN SUB
1x Dbx Drive Rack2 DSP
« Last Edit: November 23, 2017, 06:16:49 pm by Doga Sagun »
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Luke Geis

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Re: DSP PROCESSOR HELP
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2017, 01:06:11 am »

Not to be mean, or downplay your skills, but if you have to ask those questions, you are in over your head.

The limiter settings will be based on your needs and the intended use. The long and short is that you shouldn't need to worry about limiting unless you know that you will have the system running near the raged edge. The biggest problem is that the limiter in the DR PA 2 will not really save a system from abuse. It is not fast enough, doesn't have RMS and thermal limiting ability. At best it will keep occasional oopsies under wraps, but it is just not powerful enough to truly keep a system from melting if it is abused.

Compression is not exactly a good thing for install systems unless there is rms and thermal limiting involved. Compression is actually a dynamics reducing process. This process actually increases the RMS energy that a PA will dissipate. In other words it makes the problem that you are trying to cure with limiting worse. This is why rms and thermal limiting is ideal. Compression is not used for system security and safety.

Phase / delay are one in the same really. If you don't understand the concept behind phase, then fixing phase related problems is a venture in futility. It really requires software tools that are specialized for that purpose. The problem with even having the software and tools is that you must also be a competent user of those tools. There are caveman ways of sorting out phase issues, but again you still have to have your head wrapped around everything really well.

The best advise is to find the tuning information that is recommended by the manufacturer. They usually have at least a recommended crossover point. The rest of the system design and optimization is based around your needs and the parts that make it.

We can't really give you any settings that will guarantee safety or best performance. That is what you will have to figure out on your own unfortunately. We can only give you an idea of safe starting points. At the moment I don't have enough info in front of me to best advise beyond what I already have. Others I'm sure will chime in with more useful info shortly though.
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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: DSP PROCESSOR HELP
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2017, 07:59:54 am »

A pair of tops with 2x 5" drivers, and an 18" sub. A little unconventional, but there you go.

Please note that everything Luke says above still applies. The settings I'm going to recommend will get you up and running, and might sound okay once the levels are dialled in, but if you've any intention of pushing the system to the limits, you're going to have problems.

I'd go for 1x top to 1x channel on the CA6, and 1x sub to 1x channel on the CA9. Do not bridge any of the amplifiers. While one channel of the CA9 is slightly underpowered for the sub (a little more headroom would be nice), bridging the amp would be way too much.

Tech specs for those following along:
Void tops - 2x 5" coaxials, 120w power handling. 16ohm.
Martin 18" sub - 1x18" ported, 500w. 8ohm.

CA6 - 400w/ch @8ohm, 600w/ch @4ohm. Assumed 200w/ch into 16ohm.
CA9 - 600w/ch @8ohm, 900w/ch @4ohm

I'd use a LR4 crossover at 150Hz. The Martin sub is rated for up to 120Hz, but I expect 150Hz to be fine, and it'll give your tops an easier life. Send mono to the sub.
When you've done that, play some music and try the "invert phase" setting on the sub. One of them should have some "kick" missing, and the other will sound good. Keep the one that sounds good.

The limiting works as follows - if any of the amps touch clip, turn it down and your speakers will survive the gig. There's a little more leeway with the sub since it has a big voicecoil and plenty of thermal mass - hitting clip on the occasional kick drum will likely be fine, but if the light comes on any more than that, you're heading for trouble.

What you're trying to do needs a measurement system to do it properly. Anything else is pretty much guesswork. I'd expect the settings I've given to sound okay. They certainly won't be optimal, but they'll get something useful out of the system.

Chris
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David Allred

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Re: DSP PROCESSOR HELP
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2017, 10:08:08 am »

Doga,
Taking into account Luke's comments, I will correct a typo by Chris.  Where he suggested LR4, he meant LR24.  You probably would have figured it out, but ...just playing safe.
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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: DSP PROCESSOR HELP
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2017, 05:04:38 pm »

Doga,
Taking into account Luke's comments, I will correct a typo by Chris.  Where he suggested LR4, he meant LR24.  You probably would have figured it out, but ...just playing safe.

Ah, I meant LR4 as in Linkwitz-Riley, 4th order. I can see that LR24 may also be used.
Similarly, I'd say BW3 to mean a 3rd order (18dB/octave) ButterWorth slope.

Chris
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Doga Sagun

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Re: DSP PROCESSOR HELP
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2017, 06:05:01 pm »


Thank you for your posts.They are really helpfull for me, i will share the pics and the setıp when the room finish, what i wanna ask you is the dsp.Which dsp you prefer me to use , which brand amd which model could you please give me some advice.


Not to be mean, or downplay your skills, but if you have to ask those questions, you are in over your head.

The limiter settings will be based on your needs and the intended use. The long and short is that you shouldn't need to worry about limiting unless you know that you will have the system running near the raged edge. The biggest problem is that the limiter in the DR PA 2 will not really save a system from abuse. It is not fast enough, doesn't have RMS and thermal limiting ability. At best it will keep occasional oopsies under wraps, but it is just not powerful enough to truly keep a system from melting if it is abused.

Compression is not exactly a good thing for install systems unless there is rms and thermal limiting involved. Compression is actually a dynamics reducing process. This process actually increases the RMS energy that a PA will dissipate. In other words it makes the problem that you are trying to cure with limiting worse. This is why rms and thermal limiting is ideal. Compression is not used for system security and safety.

Phase / delay are one in the same really. If you don't understand the concept behind phase, then fixing phase related problems is a venture in futility. It really requires software tools that are specialized for that purpose. The problem with even having the software and tools is that you must also be a competent user of those tools. There are caveman ways of sorting out phase issues, but again you still have to have your head wrapped around everything really well.

The best advise is to find the tuning information that is recommended by the manufacturer. They usually have at least a recommended crossover point. The rest of the system design and optimization is based around your needs and the parts that make it.

We can't really give you any settings that will guarantee safety or best performance. That is what you will have to figure out on your own unfortunately. We can only give you an idea of safe starting points. At the moment I don't have enough info in front of me to best advise beyond what I already have. Others I'm sure will chime in with more useful info shortly though.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: DSP PROCESSOR HELP
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2017, 08:31:51 pm »

what i wanna ask you is the dsp.Which dsp you prefer me to use , which brand amd which model could you please give me some advice.
I would start with one that Void has settings for.

All DSPs are NOT the same-meaning the numbers don't transfer from one to the other.

Sometimes they do, a lot of the time they don't.

I have seen some DSPs that have the xover filters an octave off from others.

I have seen the Q (width of filters) to be twice or half of other DSPs.

It has nothing to do with the quality, but rather how the manufacturer defines the numbers.

Of course the BEST way is to measure the result and see how well it compares to ideal.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!
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