ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Down

Author Topic: Need Help - bar band new PA  (Read 9332 times)

Forest Monroe

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5
Re: Need Help - bar band new PA
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2017, 06:34:47 PM »

I think DXR is the top of our price range/we’re pretty amateur, we’re definitely not trying to have perfect top notch sound. We play fast covers of old Beach boys and other songs. It’s a party atmosphere at here bars, sound quality isn’t the highest priority. I have begun to care more about it though and am now really thinking we should get a sub. Are the alto ts or ev zxa subs worth it? Will they provide a little low end (very small bars) with either the dxr or dbr tops? Or would we be better of getting 15s on top and running everything through them
Logged

Luke Geis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2356
    • Owner of Endever Music Production's
Re: Need Help - bar band new PA
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2017, 10:11:38 PM »

I don't think the 15" tops will net you much better. Modern 12' speakers get about as low with almost the same impact. A 10" will have an obvious reduction in low end content and power. A modern 15" speaker at best usually only gets down to around 40hz. This is pretty darn low, but utilizing that low end and giving it the thump that many want eats LOTS of headroom. So what you're left with is a system that has little headroom to have everything in it you want. Great for dj"s, not for live sound.

I honestly think 12" with any sub is a better way to go.
Logged
I don't understand how you can't hear yourself

Paul G. OBrien

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1393
Re: Need Help - bar band new PA
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2017, 10:49:46 PM »

A modern 15" speaker at best usually only gets down to around 40hz. This is pretty darn low, but utilizing that low end and giving it the thump that many want eats LOTS of headroom.
And totally destroys mid/vocal sound quality. The worst I have ever heard my DXR15s sound was with a DJ pushing them with bass heavy tracks. If you're gonna buy a sub anyway I'd suggest opting for DXR10s and a single DXS15 sub, should make for a potent and really compact PA.
Logged

Stephen Kirby

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3006
Re: Need Help - bar band new PA
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2017, 01:24:05 AM »

Vocal speakers need to be up in the air above people's heads.  Ideally aimed down to cover the audience area.  When you do that you loose boundary reinforcement and it's much harder to get bass.  High end subs can be made to work flown but to get the most out of what you have, you want bass speakers on the floor.  A DXS12 or 15 on the floor will way outperform any two good MI grade 15s up on stands.  For a pop band in a bar you just want the kick drum to keep up with the bass amp and balance things.  Most times taking the blanket out of the drum and tuning it up a bit works just fine.  But if you need the help, then a small sub will work.  I use my DXS12 as part of the drum monitor on larger gigs.  But I've used it a few times with either the DSRs or some K10s, which it will more than keep up with for band work.  If most of your instruments are making sufficient noise on stage a pair of DXR10s and a DXS12s will carry the vocals, the occasional acoustic guitar and a bit of keyboards if necessary to spread them out in a small to moderate bar at adult volumes.
Also, check out the Alto SXM112 monitors.  Great for small bar gigs.  Steep angle so you can have them right in front of you, very small footprint and great punch though on vocals.  I've used them in lots of situations indoors and out and they punch way above their weight (and price).  I've had one side by side with a ZLX12 with a noisy band and you couldn't tell the EV was on (the leader/singer insisted on the EVs as they sounded boomy and masculine with nothing else going on, but when the band was all hacking away the Altos carried the day).
Logged

Richard Penrose

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 648
Re: Need Help - bar band new PA
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2017, 04:09:24 AM »

I’ve never had a problem with vocal clarity whilst putting bass, kick drum and keys through the DXR15’s!? In fact I often have people commenting on how good the vocal sound is. Mind you most of the singers I work with are pros and have excellent mic technique! I also use decent quality vocal mics (Telefunken M80, Sennheiser E945, Audio Technica ATM710).
Logged

Luke Geis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2356
    • Owner of Endever Music Production's
Re: Need Help - bar band new PA
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2017, 01:23:16 PM »

I think the clarity would be fine, or at least could be made to sound fine with a 15". I just think the average Joe will run out of the needed headroom to run a fully mic'd band through a 15" speaker. Call it psychological if you will, but when you see a 12" or smaller speaker you treat it as such, and you get the results you probably need even though the speaker is capable of much more.

There is no rule that says you can't mic the entire band and run them through even a 10" speaker, it will just be working very hard if you try and get it to sound like a full size PA system. So when you see a 12" or smaller speaker you instantly go to economy mode and only mic the essentials. That changes when you get a sub and can effectively get a desired result that is also safe for the speakers. Most modern 12" speakers go down to around 50hz. This is low enough to make a point and they can do it with some good authority too. Not as much as a 15" for sure, but it can say here I am.

While I would agree going with a 10" and sub would be the best and most affordable system, it is not as versatile. If they decide to go without subs, the 10" speaker will be put to work. This should be fine most of the time, but a 12" would sure be a little bit better. The 12" speaker is just more utilitarian when you need both output and frequency response. I think it is a better buy, even if the 10" may sound better.
Logged
I don't understand how you can't hear yourself

Scott Olewiler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1198
  • Trust me, it will be loud enough.
    • 4th Street Sound
Re: Need Help - bar band new PA
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2017, 09:59:15 AM »

opting for DXR10s and a single DXS15 sub, should make for a potent and really compact PA.

Great advice right here. A single DXS12 will also do the trick with a slightly smaller foot print.
Logged
We're here to deliver the sound equipment. Who has the check?

kel mcguire

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 381
Re: Need Help - bar band new PA
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2017, 02:33:53 PM »

Great advice right here. A single DXS12 will also do the trick with a slightly smaller foot print.

I put together a small rig for my band. It had to go into Disneyland and other gigs on one trip. I was doing only 12" mains, Yamaha DBR and QSC K, which I own. I was putting kick & a bit of bass( a stomper pedal, not a drum so there is no stage volume) in the 12s. That was
Ok, not great. If the crowds got bigger the kick would eat up some headroom that the vocals needed. I'd used KW152 with pretty good results before but lifting them, plus the footprint ruled them out. I have 18" QSC subs but in no way did I want to bring an 18 sub.

so, I recently bought a DXS12 and some QSC K10.2. I wasn't expecting that little sub to be as nice actually. It really performs well above its size and footprint.  The newer K.2 are pretty sweet too. The DXS12 isn't super light at 68 lbs but it's really manageable, small footprint, and the construction is really solid. placing a single sub can sometimes be an issue. On some raised stages it can go in the center, underneath, or I can set the center wedge monitor on it too. Other than that it's placed under one of the mains. 

Another DXS12 will be happening for me, and I'm thinking this rig can do probably half (or more) of my small other sound gigs. The look of such small components might throw someone off but most clients hire me because of years of reputation.

I've not heard the DXR8 in action but I bet two DXR8 over two DXS12 might be a pretty potent little PA.
Logged

Fraser Moffatt

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 73
Re: Need Help - bar band new PA
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2017, 08:04:35 PM »

We're using a pair of ZLX15Ps in small to medium bar gig situations. I run bass direct, so that's coming through the mains. I haul the full PA, so opt not to bring my bass amp on top of that!    A bit of kick and snare for tastes. Acoustic guitar and vox. We generally don't reinforce the guitar amp (vintage Princeton or a custom Deluxe).

I feel the 15s are a happy medium between a 12 by itself and a 12+sub configuration - as long as you're not putting the full band through them. We rent subs as necessary when the gig requires it (larger spaces, outdoor gigs). 

I'm happy enough with this setup for the modest amount I've put into it. Nice thing is that my rig paid itself off in the first year!

Here's the full rig in action, including my lighting rig!  The 15s alone had enough juice to rock the tent at this wedding - maybe 100 ppl - dance floor about 36' x 36' right in front of the stage...

« Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 08:13:38 PM by Fraser Moffatt »
Logged
Now with 27% more mojo.

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Need Help - bar band new PA
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2017, 08:04:35 PM »


Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Up
 



Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc.

Page created in 0.031 seconds with 25 queries.