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[Hayden J. Nebus]

“You don’t have enough subs”

“I’m offering you 105dB/meter per stack at -24dBu drive with max output 135dBSPL before corner loading and room modes. That’s not enough?”

“I don’t need a lesson after 30years of advancing audio double the number of subs please”

Unfortunately, upon further review, all performance requirements of the rider will be met as specified. Furthermore I cannot in good conscience subject the 600 people, who for some reason voluntarily paid money to be subjected to this, to involuntary bowel resonance events.

The cleanup really isn’t in the budget. Might I suggest consulting Beltone for an evaluation? For you I would recommend the miracle ear by Beats edition.

[Ivan Beaver]

“You don’t have enough subs”

“I’m offering you 105dB/meter per stack at -24dBu drive with max output 135dBSPL before corner loading and room modes. That’s not enough?”

“I don’t need a lesson after 30years of advancing audio double the number of subs please”

Unfortunately, upon further review, all performance requirements of the rider will be met as specified. Furthermore I cannot in good conscience subject the 600 people, who for some reason voluntarily paid money to be subjected to this, to involuntary bowel resonance events.

The cleanup really isn’t in the budget. Might I suggest consulting Beltone for an evaluation? For you I would recommend the miracle ear by Beats edition.

Of course it depends on the location where those SPLs are predicted.

All that some people know is "simple numbers" of cabinets.

There is A LOT more to it than that-but they can't/won't understand.

I have actually had sound guys not show up for the gig, because they said they would be embarrassed by not having enough subs.

And then gotten compliments saying that is the best the band has sounded in years.

I guess that is all I need to know about the "expert soundman".

But some of them feel they "know it all".  Oh well.

[John Fruits]

Two questions:
>Does the rider include one of those Sonic Crapalizer thingies?
>Does someone have to pick out all the green GummiBears? or something like that.

[Tim McCulloch]

“You don’t have enough subs”

“I’m offering you 105dB/meter per stack at -24dBu drive with max output 135dBSPL before corner loading and room modes. That’s not enough?”

“I don’t need a lesson after 30years of advancing audio double the number of subs please”

Unfortunately, upon further review, all performance requirements of the rider will be met as specified. Furthermore I cannot in good conscience subject the 600 people, who for some reason voluntarily paid money to be subjected to this, to involuntary bowel resonance events.

The cleanup really isn’t in the budget. Might I suggest consulting Beltone for an evaluation? For you I would recommend the miracle ear by Beats edition.

Sure, whatever you say, pal.  I'll bring you the brand new *Arpege* subs!  Infinitely loud at any distance at any drive level.

Arpege (the perfume, not the restaurant) had a TV advertising campaign back in thes 1960 and 1970s that featured a loving couple where the gentleman was having difficulty deciding on a gift.  The advert's tag line "Promise her anything but give her Arpege." 

Arpege is what you get when the promoter decides what he's gonna pay for.  Arpege is what you get when you decided to advance your show <24 hours before load in or after the truck has been packed.  Arpege is what you get when you're a dick...

[Hayden J. Nebus]

The sub package that's inadequate for this guy once, and only once, got tight packed center in the very venue he's playing.

...That's not allowed anymore because half of the 20w decorative incadecent lamps in the venue blew out from the filaments shaking, and there's hundreds of them in there.

[Bob Leonard]

Sure, whatever you say, pal.  I'll bring you the brand new *Arpege* subs!  Infinitely loud at any distance at any drive level.

Arpege (the perfume, not the restaurant) had a TV advertising campaign back in thes 1960 and 1970s that featured a loving couple where the gentleman was having difficulty deciding on a gift.  The advert's tag line "Promise her anything but give her Arpege." 

Arpege is what you get when the promoter decides what he's gonna pay for.  Arpege is what you get when you decided to advance your show <24 hours before load in or after the truck has been packed.  Arpege is what you get when you're a dick...

Or in some cases on your dick.

[Mark Cadwallader]

80% deposit up front, the remaining 40% at load in. ;-)

[Hayden J. Nebus]

Dude obviously does need a lesson, so I think we should go back and forth a little more about doubling the subs just for kicks, I try and have the promoter shut it down, and ultimately he gets what he wants but the extra subs come out of his settlement.

... and I wait until that juncture to point out that he got what he wanted but had to fight tooth and nail and spent hard earned cash, all for 3dB.

[Chris Hindle]

... and I wait until that juncture to point out that he got what he wanted but had to fight tooth and nail and spent hard earned cash, all for 3dB.

And NO PAYING CUSTOMER heard the difference !!!!!
Chris.

[Tim McCulloch]

And NO PAYING CUSTOMER heard the difference !!!!!
Chris.

And the BE probably won't, either.

TL;DR... (story time)

A few years ago we did a gig for another provider who double-booked; the provider sent a rep to oversee client side stuff and interface with the performer's crew.

It was a typical small festival - weekend on hydraulic stage in a city park, coverage area was about 80' by 140'.  We took 8 VerTec 4887 (to make fly point weight) and 3 VerTec 4880 subs per side.  BE was not happy that he saw only half the subs he wanted... "I told that *&^%@#$  I wanted 6 doubles a side, not 6 18s a side..."  I punted this back to the provider rep and went about satisfying his other need, an increase in system input sensitivity.  He was carrying an XL250 or Heritage with a nice double wide of vintage and current analog i/o processing.  When I asked why he needed more system gain, his response was "I don't want to drive my desk that hard."

What?  A Midas without red lights flickering?  The HERESY!

Anyway it was a fairly easy request to fulfill...  and watching the I-Tech output levels in System Architect I noticed that he never came close to using the subs to full output... so much for "needing" more subs.

The eyes need more sub, the ears did not.

[Chris Hindle]

The eyes need more sub, the ears did not.

Did a couple of shows with 1/2 the subs connected at the box, but shorting plugs in the other end.....
Anyone who looked saw plenty of blinky lights, and lots of cables....
Just because you brought them, doesn't mean it's NEEDED for the show at hand.
Chris.

[brian maddox]

And the BE probably won't, either.

TL;DR... (story time)

A few years ago we did a gig for another provider who double-booked; the provider sent a rep to oversee client side stuff and interface with the performer's crew.

It was a typical small festival - weekend on hydraulic stage in a city park, coverage area was about 80' by 140'.  We took 8 VerTec 4887 (to make fly point weight) and 3 VerTec 4880 subs per side.  BE was not happy that he saw only half the subs he wanted... "I told that *&^%@#$  I wanted 6 doubles a side, not 6 18s a side..."  I punted this back to the provider rep and went about satisfying his other need, an increase in system input sensitivity.  He was carrying an XL250 or Heritage with a nice double wide of vintage and current analog i/o processing.  When I asked why he needed more system gain, his response was "I don't want to drive my desk that hard."

What?  A Midas without red lights flickering?  The HERESY!

Anyway it was a fairly easy request to fulfill...  and watching the I-Tech output levels in System Architect I noticed that he never came close to using the subs to full output... so much for "needing" more subs.

The eyes need more sub, the ears did not.

Or the opposite issue...

Had a very nice d&b rig outside for an A-list act.  We were also using the show as a demo for a possible system sale, so we brought Plenty of Rig for the Gig.

Anyway, the opener was a local/regional act that clearly spent all their time in small clubs, because while the mains were running at a reasonable level, the Aux feeding the Subs was hitting the clip light on every Kick Drum beat.  Not a big deal as there was plenty of limiting present to keep everything safe, but the low end was DEVASTATING.  Like "heart-stopping, i can't even breathe" levels of sub.  And the BE was oblivious.

I had R1 running so i just went in and lowered the inputs on the sub amps until the levels were a little less stupid.  Again, BE never even noticed.  It was clear that he was so used to mixing with his eyes ["I know the sub send needs to be at clip since there's never enough subs"] that he wasn't really listening.

[The A-list BE brought his own XL4 and outboard and his act sounded Amazing!  And yeah, i turned the amps back up for him...  ]

[george welder]

80% deposit up front, the remaining 40% at load in. ;-)

This made up for the rest of my day. 

[Mike Smith]

And the BE probably won't, either.

TL;DR... (story time)

A few years ago we did a gig for another provider who double-booked; the provider sent a rep to oversee client side stuff and interface with the performer's crew.

It was a typical small festival - weekend on hydraulic stage in a city park, coverage area was about 80' by 140'.  We took 8 VerTec 4887 (to make fly point weight) and 3 VerTec 4880 subs per side.  BE was not happy that he saw only half the subs he wanted... "I told that *&^%@#$  I wanted 6 doubles a side, not 6 18s a side..."  I punted this back to the provider rep and went about satisfying his other need, an increase in system input sensitivity.  He was carrying an XL250 or Heritage with a nice double wide of vintage and current analog i/o processing.  When I asked why he needed more system gain, his response was "I don't want to drive my desk that hard."

What?  A Midas without red lights flickering?  The HERESY!

Anyway it was a fairly easy request to fulfill...  and watching the I-Tech output levels in System Architect I noticed that he never came close to using the subs to full output... so much for "needing" more subs.

The eyes need more sub, the ears did not.

Wasn't the Midas Heresy their last large-format analog mixer?

[Hayden J. Nebus]

Wasn't the Midas Heresy their last large-format analog mixer?

Nope sorry, it was definitely small format, because I know for a fact that Heresy is a Midas console with no HPF knob.

[Jason Raboin]

I would just let the cost say no for me.  When advancing, I never say no.  Nothing is impossible, it just has a cost.  You need more subs?  Sure, that's $xxx for the truck, $xxx for the guy, $xxx for the gear.  Then add in kill seats for the sightline issues caused.  Then bounce it up to the artist agent and the promoter. 

[Dave Scarlett]

Sounds like the guy was using the Dunning-Kruger" effect

[Luke Geis]

^^^^^^ So cold, I'm hearing the air freeze.

I'm so good at hearing, I can actually hear the air freeze

It sound like ouch...

[Hayden J. Nebus]

If you listen very closely, you can hear how well this gig is selling

If you don't hear anything, you are correct. 

[Helge A Bentsen]

I would just let the cost say no for me.  When advancing, I never say no.  Nothing is impossible, it just has a cost.  You need more subs?  Sure, that's $xxx for the truck, $xxx for the guy, $xxx for the gear.  Then add in kill seats for the sightline issues caused.  Then bounce it up to the artist agent and the promoter.

This!

Works every time.

[brian maddox]

I would just let the cost say no for me.  When advancing, I never say no.  Nothing is impossible, it just has a cost.  You need more subs?  Sure, that's $xxx for the truck, $xxx for the guy, $xxx for the gear.  Then add in kill seats for the sightline issues caused.  Then bounce it up to the artist agent and the promoter.

Yeah, this is basically a Win Win.  Either saner heads prevail, or you just bring in WAY too much gear and bill for all of it.

I have a long story on this exact point, but the short version is that saner heads did NOT prevail, all of the gear was brought in and was then actually USED.  At full Filt.  Half the audience walked out within 10 minutes because it was TOO DAMN LOUD!!!!  Less than 20 percent fo the crowd lasted to the show's end.  Promoter ended up refunding about half the show's tickets.

Next time a similar situation came up, they asked US what the appropriate amount of gear was for the gig and told the BE that that was what they were getting.  Easy Peasy....

[Hayden J. Nebus]

...AND hillarity ensues. Someone got sacked at loadin and wiped the console. Let’s hope the Uber back to the airport has enough subwoofer!

[Tim McCulloch]

...AND hillarity ensues. Someone got sacked at loadin and wiped the console. Let’s hope the Uber back to the airport has enough subwoofer!

This is why you never terminate a show employee until after load out is done.

[Hayden J. Nebus]

This is why you never terminate a show employee until after load out is done.

Replacement staff loaded a stick like it ain’t no thang.

[ProSoundWeb Community]