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Author Topic: Proximity Effect, yep, that again.  (Read 796 times)

Scott Holtzman

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Re: Proximity Effect, yep, that again.
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2017, 07:29:58 pm »

That process goes way beyond the debate over psychoacoustics.

I try not to talk about psychoacoustics on the first date. 

Already taken too much troll bait I am afraid.
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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman
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Ray Aberle

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Re: Proximity Effect, yep, that again.
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2017, 08:55:57 pm »

This subject again?!?
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Mark Brownell

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Re: Proximity Effect, yep, that again.
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2017, 08:56:49 pm »

I try not to talk about psychoacoustics on the first date. 

Already taken too much troll bait I am afraid.


I told people here in the first post that there will be those that reject this. Just think about this. Nobody here so far has any questions about the technique disclosed. WHY IS THAT? Why is this "Troll" straw man defensive trick being interjected? I say attenuate that.

I personally dragged a resister, that's what I call the unHOLY here now. -- I got this sound man to tell me who the very best sound man was in Tampa. Several people all agreed it was this one same person. So we were in Ybor City during the renascence of that place. Kansas and Eric Johnson were the acts. After he admitted that this guy was the best I dragged him up to the FOH and told him to look at the EQ's for the mic channels in his mix. There it was. Numbers don't lie. Right in his face. NUMBERS DON"T LIE.

It's real easy to cross up resisters. Someone else from this forum will show them up. They will drag their cosmetic rear ends to a mixing board and make them hear it and see it. I just want to know who is going to be the first. Who's going to take the chance that this might actually work?

You must know that I don't give two cents for closed minded people. I do get a huge kick out of people that come in last place while acting like they are some kind of harbinger of decorum.

You claim troll and I claiming ignorance. I'm not suggesting a lack of knowledge here either. This is not a case of a person not knowing something. This is a case of someone knowing everything and using "Troll" as a lame excuse. I didn't know that BOZO comes on in the first act.

Try to deal with the science. It's a real reality that nobody is the real master of. It's always non threatening. And yes, you have to deal with it to keep up your image. Why? because I'm saying so. You have to shut me down with proof and not BS. Try to prove that this EQ trick can't attenuate the proximity effect. Have you had enough of that?
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Proximity Effect, yep, that again.
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2017, 09:39:01 pm »


I told people here in the first post that there will be those that reject this. Just think about this. Nobody here so far has any questions about the technique disclosed. WHY IS THAT? Why is this "Troll" straw man defensive trick being interjected? I say attenuate that.

I personally dragged a resister, that's what I call the unHOLY here now. -- I got this sound man to tell me who the very best sound man was in Tampa. Several people all agreed it was this one same person. So we were in Ybor City during the renascence of that place. Kansas and Eric Johnson were the acts. After he admitted that this guy was the best I dragged him up to the FOH and told him to look at the EQ's for the mic channels in his mix. There it was. Numbers don't lie. Right in his face. NUMBERS DON"T LIE.

It's real easy to cross up resisters. Someone else from this forum will show them up. They will drag their cosmetic rear ends to a mixing board and make them hear it and see it. I just want to know who is going to be the first. Who's going to take the chance that this might actually work?

You must know that I don't give two cents for closed minded people. I do get a huge kick out of people that come in last place while acting like they are some kind of harbinger of decorum.

You claim troll and I claiming ignorance. I'm not suggesting a lack of knowledge here either. This is not a case of a person not knowing something. This is a case of someone knowing everything and using "Troll" as a lame excuse. I didn't know that BOZO comes on in the first act.

Try to deal with the science. It's a real reality that nobody is the real master of. It's always non threatening. And yes, you have to deal with it to keep up your image. Why? because I'm saying so. You have to shut me down with proof and not BS. Try to prove that this EQ trick can't attenuate the proximity effect. Have you had enough of that?

Can't believe I am feeding the troll.  Nobody is rejecting your idea, there is just nothing to it.  A little bump an octave up or down from a deep cut is standard fare. 

Name dropping 70's artists is going to impress the crowd here either.  I guess you have no idea who some of these guys are. 

What venue in Ybor city?  I did my undergraduate at UT.  I cut my teeth working around the area in the early 80's.  First lighting rig outside of high school I touched was the old Skirpan stuff at HCC's Ybor campus.

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman
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Dave Scarlett

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Re: Proximity Effect, yep, that again.
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2017, 09:50:32 pm »

Hi Mark, I just have re-read your original post and the comments it generated trying to sort this out. A couple of things come to mind for me, first is to know your audience. On this site you have some top level people mixing on a vast variety of desks with national acts throughout the world. There are designers and manufactures of pro audio equipment covering everything from small clubs to arena and stadiums as well.

I cannot agree either that there are tricks to solving any sound related problems including mic proximity. You are generalizing where there is no common solution to getting the best sound all dependent on the equipment and space. Today we have a nearly unlimited number of EQ's that can be assigned anywhere in the mix and are not limited to four bands as found on older analog desks. You make no mention of the mic's your using either what all have varying characteristics. Have you tried a Audix OM7 or a AKG D5? Either one of these could help.

You're probably best to do what I did when I first joined, read through the history and current forums. I've been a member here for a few years and at age 62 still find myself learning from other members here, and I've done a show for 18,000 in the past.

Regards Dave
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Mark Brownell

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Re: Proximity Effect, yep, that again.
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2017, 10:01:49 pm »

Can't believe I am feeding the troll.  Nobody is rejecting your idea, there is just nothing to it.  A little bump an octave up or down from a deep cut is standard fare. 

Name dropping 70's artists is going to impress the crowd here either.  I guess you have no idea who some of these guys are. 

What venue in Ybor city?  I did my undergraduate at UT.  I cut my teeth working around the area in the early 80's.  First lighting rig outside of high school I touched was the old Skirpan stuff at HCC's Ybor campus.


Ever heard of UROK? How about the Hazies? I'll bet you missed the Jen and the Genitorturers? This is stupid. I don't care if you reject it. Buzz off cowboy.

Amazing. Keep up the face to the crowd. I don't care. You are actually sure of your self. Great job. This is the only topic I want to share here at this forum. Still waiting for someone better than you to drag your JAMF butt to school. It will happen too. There must be people here that want to set you strait. This is the chance. You marginalize what you won't consider and poster yourself as if the time you have spent here entitles you to be the guardian.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 10:19:23 pm by Mark Brownell »
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Mark Brownell

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Re: Proximity Effect, yep, that again.
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2017, 10:18:00 pm »

Dave, Thanks for your kind remarks.

It is my opinion that the people that come to this forum are not trying to tame large arenas and a limitless supply of outboard gear at their disposal. I took my thread to churches where sound boards do in fact have only have four bands of parametric EQ and a box full of SM57 & SM58 mics. The mic trick, by the numbers, applies to just about all singers that eat the mics. The added low frequency happens to everyone. My solution was given to me by somebody that I already mentioned. It works every time I use it. It clears muddy mixes. So please explain to me that the idea could not be that simple and yet kept a secret, and that the implication could suggest that the great minds of sound reinforcement have overlooked it for decades. Is it the idea of it that is hated or just me for suggesting it? How could this work?
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: Proximity Effect, yep, that again.
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2017, 11:18:52 pm »

What you say may work for you with your system, how your system has been tuned, what your system consist of and how it's deployed.

Your numbers plugged into a completely different system, we'll just say results may vary.

Try different mics, go old school and think RE10, RE11, RE16

Stephen Swaffer

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Re: Proximity Effect, yep, that again.
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2017, 11:47:32 pm »

Most of us come here to get answers to questions-and sometimes we might be able to contribute something helpful in regards to another's question.

I confess, I knew nothing of this trick.  I ran sound on an analog mixer for a church using a box full of SM58's for about 20 years.  Lot's of compliments from musicians, visitors and others-had a few vocalists use the proximity effect to their advantage.  Muddy mixes?  Never really a problem-maybe we just accidentally got the system set up right? 

Then again maybe not so accidental?  I came here, asked people smarter than me, followed good solid advice and implemented their basic suggestions following good practices that concentrated on simple fundamentals, not voodoo and tricks and secret formulas, and the result was incredibly fun to work with.
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Mark Brownell

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Re: Proximity Effect, yep, that again.
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2017, 12:14:23 am »

I think I walked into pissing contest country. The one thing I hated about the music business was the people that schmoozed up to anyone that represented money for suckers or suckers for fools. My favorite was a guy that claimed he mastered Harry Belafonte's Banana Boat Song. He sucked thousands out of the studio I built in Clearwater Florida for a guy who had the bucks to spend it.

I ran away from my life as one of the very first poly extreme athletes in the entire world to join the circus we call the music business. All I had was a computer based midi studio with racks of all the best keyboards and controllers and effects. I was good at it too. In Tampa in 1990 I was given the opportunity to build a world class recording studio in Clearwater. I ripped off a design somebody showed me for a mastering suite that was originally designed by a record label at Georgia Tech. They showed it to me and I just got it. I was a California General Contractor that had built all kinds of very cool things. I could see it. One of my hobbies was computers. So I designed the studio on my Mac with a hand held calculator to figure out audio coupling designs. It was truly state of the art for the times. It had blades and traps and reflection free zones and one very amazing thing. It had the largest Trident-A range Board in the entire world in it. They took board "0" and board "1" and combined them for 64 tracks. Every component was gone through by an electrical engineer. It was amazing with more than 7,000 knobs.

I'm telling you this because the studio was built just to bulldoze it. The entire purpose of that studio was to impress the IRS and the Home Depot. The IRS wanted to see an investment and the Home Depot wanted the space for parking lot spaces. In my two years as a runaway I got to be trained in artist management and entertainment concepts by a professional company named Young American Showcase. That's where the UROK/Hazies band comes into it. I was also trained in sound reinforcement with live gigs in some of the worst venues imaginable. It was non stop for two years. So I ran away to the music business and got a taste of a feast or famine lifestyle that I would not wish on a dog. Yes, I met a lot of famous people. I spent an hour in the studio with Billy Gibbons. I hung out with famous music producers. It's all good when the band you manage gets signed to the bigs.

I'm a professional builder, a computer programmer, a professional gambler, and a guitar player. It should be clear as a bell to you that I don't give a damn if I fit in. I don't want to be rude though.

I gave you guys this trick. Somebody is actually going to try it or at least test it with a spectrum analyzer and some white noise. This thing works by the numbers and that will prove it. Somebody is going to see it clears things up. You will know it when you hear it.

I just have to laugh my ass off at the fiefdom mentality of people that guard their territory as if this life, this music business life, is really worth defending so much. To each his own. There's a big world out there and you owe it to yourself to actually be a real renascence man. Do everything. Be great at everything. The mix of life far outclasses getting old and wishing that you didn't actually fix it in the mix but actually didn't.
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