ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 6   Go Down

Author Topic: New subwoofer recommendations  (Read 2265 times)

Wayne Garton

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 21
    • Renew Church
New subwoofer recommendations
« on: October 28, 2017, 11:46:49 pm »

We have a medium size rectangular auditorium with a very high ceiling (seats about 350). Speakers are passive line arrays; 2 X Beta TLA's and 1 X Beta TLB's on each side. Under stage we have a home-made subwoofers which need replacing. They also need to fly since the kick and bass is being absorbed by about the first 10 rows. Crossovers are 2 X Driverack 260's (one on left and right)
Anyone know of some suitable overhead subs we could buy (either powered or passive)? Worship is modern, Hillsong/Bethel/Contemporary Music.
Logged
Wayne

Mac Kerr

  • Old enough to know better
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5683
  • Audio Plumber
Posting Rules
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2017, 11:47:36 pm »

We have a medium size rectangular auditorium

Please go to your profile and change the "Name" field to your real first and last name as required by the posting rules displayed in the header at the top of the section, and in the Site Rules and Suggestions in the Forum Announcements section, and on the registration page when you registered.

Mac
Logged

Wayne Garton

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 21
    • Renew Church
Re: Posting Rules
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2017, 01:22:12 am »


Sorry - fixed now
Logged
Wayne

Jean-Pierre Coetzee

  • Classic LAB
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 562
  • Gauteng, South Africa
Re: New subwoofer recommendations
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2017, 03:37:04 am »

We have a medium size rectangular auditorium with a very high ceiling (seats about 350). Speakers are passive line arrays; 2 X Beta TLA's and 1 X Beta TLB's on each side. Under stage we have a home-made subwoofers which need replacing. They also need to fly since the kick and bass is being absorbed by about the first 10 rows. Crossovers are 2 X Driverack 260's (one on left and right)
Anyone know of some suitable overhead subs we could buy (either powered or passive)? Worship is modern, Hillsong/Bethel/Contemporary Music.

Contact an integrator in your area or a consultant and get some assistance from them, you will be better suited.

I don't think that better subs are going to solve your problems, you would likely be better off spending money on a powered system from a reputable company such as Yamaha, QSC, EV, JBL, RCF, Turbosound or any of the others mentioned all the time in these forums. Also go and read the main site of these forums, there is a lot of good information there to help you out.

You will find once you have purchased decent subs those tops are going to show their true colors(hint: it's not good) and you will be looking at replacing them in a year or two so rather spend the time now to do your research correctly.

Now for the technical questions, what is the dimensions of your room and what is your budget?

Logged
Audio Technician
Word & Life Church

"If you want "loud", then run a piece of sheet metal through a table saw------

If you want "watts"-then plug in a toaster"
- Ivan Beaver

TJ (Tom) Cornish

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 3854
  • St. Paul, MN
Re: New subwoofer recommendations
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2017, 08:03:25 am »

We have a medium size rectangular auditorium with a very high ceiling (seats about 350). Speakers are passive line arrays; 2 X Beta TLA's and 1 X Beta TLB's on each side. Under stage we have a home-made subwoofers which need replacing. They also need to fly since the kick and bass is being absorbed by about the first 10 rows. Crossovers are 2 X Driverack 260's (one on left and right)
Anyone know of some suitable overhead subs we could buy (either powered or passive)? Worship is modern, Hillsong/Bethel/Contemporary Music.
Wayne, welcome to the forum.  There are lots of install-grade subs that have flying hardware and are probably adequate for your room (EAW, JBL, Danley, etc.). Flying them is not usually a good DIY thing, so if you want them flown, a consultant/installer would help you navigate the install catalogs and get them flown safely.

That said, I'm not sure your diagnosis of the bass being absorbed by the first 10 rows is accurate. The vast majority of auditoriums have subs on the ground and they work fine, so it is probably more an issue of where and how they are under your stage than it being a categorical problem. A consultant could help you here, too.
Logged

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8178
  • Atlanta GA
Re: New subwoofer recommendations
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2017, 10:23:59 am »



That said, I'm not sure your diagnosis of the bass being absorbed by the first 10 rows is accurate. The vast majority of auditoriums have subs on the ground and they work fine, so it is probably more an issue of where and how they are under your stage than it being a categorical problem. A consultant could help you here, too.

It is not a matter of the sound "being absorbed" by the first rows.

It is simply inverse square law.  The people up front are closer, so it is louder to them.

If the levels are set for those people, then it will be quieter in the rear.  Basic physics.

When you fly the subs, the distance to the rear seats doesn't change much (not enough to be considered) so the inverse square looses don't change.

HOWEVER, the distance to the front rows changes quite a bit,  so inverse square reduces the levels to those seats.

So the ratio of front to rear seats is less when flown than when on the ground.

It is the ratio that is important.  The greater the ratio of distance, the greater the difference in level.  Not so much the actual distance.

The SPL difference between 1 and 2 feet is the same as between 100 and 200 feet.
Logged
A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Mike Caldwell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 548
  • Covington, Ohio
    • Mike Caldwell Audio Productions
Re: New subwoofer recommendations
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2017, 11:56:32 am »

In your post you said your have 1 Beta TLB per side double 18 per side and if I read it correctly you also have two homemade subs as well.
I have never heard of "Beta" speakers and I' not going to speculate
on how they work and sound same goes for the quality of the homemade sub mentioned (not that is anything wrong with a properly designed and built homemade sub!) A big problem could be that the two types of subs are just not happy working together.

What is the purpose of the two DBX260 DSP's as in one for left and one for right?

Are all the subs being driven from the main mix or are some or all operated as aux fed subs?

Scott Holtzman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4040
  • Ghost AV - Avon Lake, OH
    • Ghost Audio Visual Systems, LLC
Re: New subwoofer recommendations
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2017, 04:45:00 pm »

In your post you said your have 1 Beta TLB per side double 18 per side and if I read it correctly you also have two homemade subs as well.
I have never heard of "Beta" speakers and I' not going to speculate
on how they work and sound same goes for the quality of the homemade sub mentioned (not that is anything wrong with a properly designed and built homemade sub!) A big problem could be that the two types of subs are just not happy working together.

What is the purpose of the two DBX260 DSP's as in one for left and one for right?

Are all the subs being driven from the main mix or are some or all operated as aux fed subs?

I never heard of omnisistem either  https://omnisistem.com/products/beta-3-tlb-218-1600w-2-x-18-passive-subwoofer

Logged
Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman
River Delta Audio is now:

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
Cleveland OH
www.ghostav.rocks

Don T. Williams

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 460
  • Midas Pro 1 & 2, M32, dbTech T12, T8, S30, DM12
    • Q Systems Music & Sound
Re: New subwoofer recommendations
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2017, 04:51:18 pm »

There is a company out of China called Beta3 that has "TL" series "line array" loudspeakers listed on their web site. Are these what you have?  If this is your system it is a vertical array.  A line array really need some length (many, many more loudspeakers than you have) and a minimal curve to act as a line array.  The forum has a lot of information on line arrays and all the incorrectly marketed loudspeakers called "line arrays" that are really vertical arrays.
Logged

Wayne Garton

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 21
    • Renew Church
Re: New subwoofer recommendations
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2017, 08:54:13 pm »

Yes. You are correct. They are Chinese made (as are many other items we buy in NZ from toasters to iPhones to cars) This is not the USA. We do what we can.
TLA http://www.beta3pro.com/productshow.php?cid=46&id=283 (X2 on each side)
TLB http://www.beta3pro.com/productshow.php?cid=46&id=49 (X1 on each side)
vertically hung like the example shown on this page
http://www.beta3pro.com/caseshow.php?cid=41&id=344

However, since we have recently changed the orientation of the auditorium setup from landscape to portrait, (turned the seating around and constructed a stage) and have just bought the speakers pre-owned, we won't be buying new ones any time soon.
We have a Soundcraft Expression SI 3 mixer and the output of this is fed to the 2 Driverack 260's which are used as X-overs for the speakers. Each Driverack has 6 outputs mono or 3 stereo pairs. These then feed the amplifiers for the speakers.
However the old subwoofers for kick and bottom end were not replaced. They are mounted directly under the vertical arrays and physically under the new stage. But it is not working. In order for a reasonable level of kick halfway down our (now longer) auditorium, it is excessively loud at the front.
I feel that some of you experienced sound guys might have some words of wisdom for us.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 11:15:14 pm by Wayne Garton »
Logged
Wayne
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 6   Go Up
 


Page created in 0.112 seconds with 18 queries.