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[Tim McCulloch]

The obvious answer for any subwoofer:

Powersoft K20. Performance beyond anything else on the market right now.

With matching price tag.

[Scott Holtzman]

With matching price tag.

Yeah, the form factor is nice too. 

I have commented on this thread and is just amazing that it still goes on.

You will never get an ROI on those PL380's.  Whatever difference you perceive is it translated to the customer or talent as a value proposition.

If you are using that last 4.5 db you need more cabinets or better cabinets , not more power.  Most clients pay by the box.



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[Sam Costa]

Final trick is instead of using one amp for lows, and one amp for mids, use one amp for lows on one channel and mids on the other, then duplicate for the other side.  If you only have one 3402 then grab another for a few hundred dollars.  Think of a bass drum then snare drum.  They dont happen at the exact same time.  Wiring this way allows the full power supply on the kick then full power supply on the snare.  It will surprise you how much headroom you gain that way just by using the power more efficiently.  Big iron amps didn't benefit as much but the PLX amps have massive power supply sag under load (its part of their design) and this allows them to work more effectively.

Pat, Interesting. I've never thought of wiring it that way, and it makes perfect sense.
FYI, just got a UX3600 and my final bumper is coming in a few weeks. When I get everything fitted/flown, and dialed in properly, I'll work on wiring it how you suggested and dialing everything in for the mains.

Ultimately I am looking at going with additional subs for my current amps. Looking at going with 4 - SB1000 sub cabs, but that will have to wait a few months (just don't tell my wife!) 

[Tim McCulloch]

Pat, Interesting. I've never thought of wiring it that way, and it makes perfect sense.
FYI, just got a UX3600 and my final bumper is coming in a few weeks. When I get everything fitted/flown, and dialed in properly, I'll work on wiring it how you suggested and dialing everything in for the mains.

Ultimately I am looking at going with additional subs for my current amps. Looking at going with 4 - SB1000 sub cabs, but that will have to wait a few months (just don't tell my wife!) 

It'll be our little secret, Sam.  Just don't put in on FaceSpace/MyBook...

If you liked your rig before, you're really gonna like it now.  Unlike some of EAW's processing choices in the Deep Dark Past the graybox settings in the UX sound pretty good right out of the box.  You'll probably find yourself rethinking top box splay angles.

You've done a significant upgrade and the audible improvement should be apparent.  I hope your customers like the "new & improved" and that the rig gets you more work.

[Luke Geis]

I think it has pretty much been stated, but a bigger amp will not fix the problem. I would venture a guess that another processor won't either.

Let's assume he doubles his amp wattage, he will gain 3db. Never going to make or break a show. Now lets also then assume he gets a processor. Still not going to fix the desire for more low end.

At 135db continuous according to spec with the 4 he has, he should be able to get between 130-136db real world output at 1 meter from these depending on deployment. This is simply by going with +12db in coupling gain and subtracting 16db for amp power and crest factor. He is powering the subs with an amp that is essentially rated for its RMS rating.

While 133db ( averaging the potential here )  isn't shattering anything, it certainly respectable. The tops have essentially the same output performance though. So this may be why he is wanting of more low end. In order to get a +6db ratio of subs to tops without turning the tops down, you would need another set of 4 subs!!!!! This, or you will have to find more efficient subs. These subs are already pretty efficient though with a 141db peak output and a whooping 8000 watts of peak power capability. Hard to find something much better for a reasonable price. If you double up on wattage you can eek another 3db of peak output and perhaps with some tricks you can squeeze it up a few db more to get a safely usable 141db real world output, but you would be at the end of the rope by then and still only just be +6db over the potential of the tops. If you get another set of 4 subs and double up on the power ( 4000 watts each !!!!!! ) you can cruise the subs in with a likely +9db potential over the tops. But that is A LOT of MOOOOOOOLLLLLLAAAAA.

[Scott Holtzman]

I think it has pretty much been stated, but a bigger amp will not fix the problem. I would venture a guess that another processor won't either.

The processor was to improve the sound of his tops, not to address the low end extension.

He did mention he is looking to upgrade his subs.  I was going to wait a few to let him know that 4 isn't enough.

[Callan Browne]

I was going to wait a few to let him know that 4 isn't enough.

Wait what..? I just today ordered 2 18's to take me to 4 total, you mean I still need more? the wife isn't going to be happy...

</Sarcasm>

*edited for clarity

[Scott Holtzman]

Wait what..? I just today ordered 2 18's to take me to 4 total, you mean I still need more? the wife isn't going to be happy...

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That comment was for Sam and the SB1000's he needs to keep up with his tops.

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[Sam Costa]

That comment was for Sam and the SB1000's he needs to keep up with his tops.

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GASP... I'll need more than 4 - SB1000? Holy smokes, I see a divorce in the future.

I thought going with 4 (2 per side) SB1000's was going to sound great or at least a bigger improvement over my current TRX sub cabs. Please do keep in mind that 70-80% of the shows I provide sound for, I ground stack my current subs then stack 1 to 2 mains per side.

Would you recommend 3 SB1000's per side to keep up with the mains then?

[Sam Costa]

It'll be our little secret, Sam.  Just don't put in on FaceSpace/MyBook...

If you liked your rig before, you're really gonna like it now.  Unlike some of EAW's processing choices in the Deep Dark Past the graybox settings in the UX sound pretty good right out of the box.  You'll probably find yourself rethinking top box splay angles.

You've done a significant upgrade and the audible improvement should be apparent.  I hope your customers like the "new & improved" and that the rig gets you more work.

Thanks Tim. I don't need the latest and greatest and all of my sound & lighting jobs are word of mouth which is what I prefer. Aside from my regular Mon-Fri job this is a side business along with performing with our band which also uses my sound and lighting gear.
You guys would probably laugh at some of our crowds and type of music we play in our band, but one thing is certain, Portuguese people love hearing that low end, as do i!

Here's a pic from one of our events in Northern California recently where I ran the 2 EAW KF650's and 2 TRX sub per side.

[ProSoundWeb Community]