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Author Topic: Recommended Sub amp for my system?  (Read 20050 times)

Sam Costa

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Re: Recommended Sub amp for my system?
« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2017, 01:57:05 AM »

I'm currently running Tri-amped mains and stereo subs.

Interestingly enough, a guy reached out to me today in regards to the post, said he has a dbx driverack 480 which he says it has EAW tunings build in to the unit. Anyone have any feedback on this processing unit?
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Recommended Sub amp for my system?
« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2017, 08:03:45 AM »

Interestingly enough, a guy reached out to me today in regards to the post, said he has a dbx driverack 480 which he says it has EAW tunings build in to the unit. Anyone have any feedback on this processing unit?

The DR480 is not capable of the processing done by the UX processors, period.
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Helge A Bentsen

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Re: Recommended Sub amp for my system?
« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2017, 08:40:58 AM »

If you want EAW greybox processing your options are UX, Lab PLM or Powersoft X/K DSP.

I run a KF650e/SB600e rig on a Powersoft X8 DSP+Dante with the latest Greyboxes from EAW.
It sounds fantastic and I can recommend it.


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Rob Spence

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Re: Recommended Sub amp for my system?
« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2017, 10:57:39 AM »

Interestingly enough, a guy reached out to me today in regards to the post, said he has a dbx driverack 480 which he says it has EAW tunings build in to the unit. Anyone have any feedback on this processing unit?

The 480 is an old box. 2 generations behind current.
And, as Tim says, isn’t capable of doing what the UX boxes do.



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Mark Wilkinson

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Re: Recommended Sub amp for my system?
« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2017, 11:38:03 AM »

I'm currently running Tri-amped mains and stereo subs.

My 2c....get a UX3600 to continue triamping your mains...if you're gonna keep the kf650s..... I join the gang that says just do it.
In my 'general shopping experience', I'd suggest to register with Northern Sound & Light to get a price from them, and it more often than not pays to get a price from our forum member Mike Pyle.

Use your existing processor for subs, or even the x-over capability of your mixer if it has  24dB BW / LR. 

I figure you're already familiar with EAW recommendations, but in case you're not http://eaw.com/docs/2_Legacy_Products/Processor%20Settings/

Good Luck...and then on to new subs !


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Pat Semeraro

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Re: Recommended Sub amp for my system?
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2017, 11:00:52 PM »

Quick note about the 8800 vs 3600 processor.  The captive limiting is very smooth and very conservative.  Particularly with EAW subs, not only will the eq be correct with the 8800 but you will squeeze every last drop of output from them and never blow them up as the processor monitors both thermal and excursion.  Punchy rock kick, no problem, sustained square waves for electronic music, no problem.  It really is a game changer.  As for "focusing" the KF650s, you will shock people with how hi-fi they sound, you will be amazed at how much farther they "throw" and most important, because the phase is corrected, they are extremely stable as far as feedback.  Pattern control at the edges improves, really its a completely system at that point.

Also with the 8800 you can run an aes signal from your console.  The depth of the stereo image when running aes from a GOOD board is noticeable from cutting out a full generation of analog to digital conversion plus no cable distance losses, no ground loops, it makes a difference!

If you're good with a soldering iron, I suggest ordering the PL2 capacitors from QSC.  (PLX is same amp but with half of the power supply capacitance) The tone is absolutely more solid and the power draw is more even.  You'll get a few hundred extra watts of output each amp as a bonus.  Costs very little per amp, and makes a big difference.

Final trick is instead of using one amp for lows, and one amp for mids, use one amp for lows on one channel and mids on the other, then duplicate for the other side.  If you only have one 3402 then grab another for a few hundred dollars.  Think of a bass drum then snare drum.  They dont happen at the exact same time.  Wiring this way allows the full power supply on the kick then full power supply on the snare.  It will surprise you how much headroom you gain that way just by using the power more efficiently.  Big iron amps didn't benefit as much but the PLX amps have massive power supply sag under load (its part of their design) and this allows them to work more effectively.

Hey fellas,
I'm going to be in the market of upgrading my sub amp to something with a little more oomph factor. My current setup is as follows (see pic - Disregard the top amp QSC PLX1202 - it was a backup amp and no longer there)

Amp 1 - QSC PLX1202 = Highs
Amp 2 - QSC PLX3402 = Mods
Amp 3 - QSC PL 4.0     = Lows
Amp 4 - QSC PL 4.0     = Subs

Speakers:
Top mains: EAW KF650 (usually floor stacked on top of the subs 1 to 2 per side depending on the venue)
Subs: Carvin Trx218 (typically floor stacked 2 dual 18" cabs per side)

don't get me wrong, the 4.0 does great, it's never let me down and always a rock star but as time goes on I'm looking for more bottom end for some events (especially outdoor) and wondered about going with a QSC 6.0 or maybe a Lab Gruppen LA 48a? or?....

Or course budget is the first thing that comes to mind and I don't mind paying for quality amps but are there other used amps out there that are in the $1K range that would give me a bit more than the 4.0?



« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 11:17:36 PM by Pat Semeraro »
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Ray Aberle

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Re: Recommended Sub amp for my system?
« Reply #36 on: November 08, 2017, 10:34:07 AM »

Final trick is instead of using one amp for lows, and one amp for mids, use one amp for lows on one channel and mids on the other, then duplicate for the other side.  If you only have one 3402 then grab another for a few hundred dollars.  Think of a bass drum then snare drum.  They dont happen at the exact same time.  Wiring this way allows the full power supply on the kick then full power supply on the snare.  It will surprise you how much headroom you gain that way just by using the power more efficiently.  Big iron amps didn't benefit as much but the PLX amps have massive power supply sag under load (its part of their design) and this allows them to work more effectively.
The other advantage here is reliability/redundancy at a show. As it is now, should one of those amps fails, your entire MF or HF range is gone. Using Pat's suggestion, if one amp fails, you lose just the MF/HF on one side (or if you eventually have double stacks on a side, then potentially just losing half of one side or the other) -- this is slightly less disastrous than losing all of one bandpass across the system...

-Ray
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Franklin Benjamin

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Re: Recommended Sub amp for my system?
« Reply #37 on: November 09, 2017, 04:13:51 PM »

Hey fellas,
I'm going to be in the market of upgrading my sub amp to something with a little more oomph factor. My current setup is as follows (see pic - Disregard the top amp QSC PLX1202 - it was a backup amp and no longer there)

Amp 1 - QSC PLX1202 = Highs
Amp 2 - QSC PLX3402 = Mods
Amp 3 - QSC PL 4.0     = Lows
Amp 4 - QSC PL 4.0     = Subs

Speakers:
Top mains: EAW KF650 (usually floor stacked on top of the subs 1 to 2 per side depending on the venue)
Subs: Carvin Trx218 (typically floor stacked 2 dual 18" cabs per side)

don't get me wrong, the 4.0 does great, it's never let me down and always a rock star but as time goes on I'm looking for more bottom end for some events (especially outdoor) and wondered about going with a QSC 6.0 or maybe a Lab Gruppen LA 48a? or?....

Or course budget is the first thing that comes to mind and I don't mind paying for quality amps but are there other used amps out there that are in the $1K range that would give me a bit more than the 4.0?


Hi Sam, I'm going to go against everyone and recommend that you borrow a larger amp and test.

I'm pretty certain that you will hear the difference.

I was in your predicament about 12 years ago with different speakers.

I was using two bridged 4.0 amps on subs.

I switched to a 9.0 moved the 4.0s up to mids (double 15 top) and experienced a real difference in low end.

Exact same processing and I wound up with more defined (tighter) and controlled bass.

While Carvin isn't the best manufacturer in the world, last I checked they were using some decent B&C drivers prior to that, I think they were using Eminence Kilomax which is a great driver.  (at least for me).  I have six of them in horn loaded subs and have no issues with them.

I have never been pleased with a 4.0 on subs.

This how ever involves a large purchase.

My recommendation would be a used PL380 if you could find it.

I think I've seen them in the wild for around $1200 - $1300.

I have no issues with upgrading to a UX processor but based on what you currently own, I think that a larger better amp will make a bigger difference now.




« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 04:19:43 PM by Franklin Benjamin »
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Pat Semeraro

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Re: Recommended Sub amp for my system?
« Reply #38 on: November 11, 2017, 12:18:36 AM »

Excellent point!  Sometimes I forget that some operators don't have big rigs with lots of redundancy or spare everything in the truck. 
Cheers
The other advantage here is reliability/redundancy at a show. As it is now, should one of those amps fails, your entire MF or HF range is gone. Using Pat's suggestion, if one amp fails, you lose just the MF/HF on one side (or if you eventually have double stacks on a side, then potentially just losing half of one side or the other) -- this is slightly less disastrous than losing all of one bandpass across the system...

-Ray
« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 11:58:16 PM by Pat Semeraro »
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Helge A Bentsen

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Re: Recommended Sub amp for my system?
« Reply #39 on: November 12, 2017, 07:07:35 AM »

The obvious answer for any subwoofer:

Powersoft K20. Performance beyond anything else on the market right now.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Recommended Sub amp for my system?
« Reply #39 on: November 12, 2017, 07:07:35 AM »


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