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Author Topic: Recommended Sub amp for my system?  (Read 2472 times)

Sam Costa

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Re: Recommended Sub amp for my system?
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2017, 05:12:47 pm »

Some years ago there was a sub shootout where they also tried a few amps.  The PL6 and Crest Pro9200 were they only amps folks could head an audible difference with.  I bought the lighter Crest and could definitely tell the difference between it and the PLX3402 I had previously.  Beyond that I think you're getting into some fairly expensive 10kW things.

Thank you guys. Some really great info here and always appreciate the feedback.

Unfortunately I'm still working with the 4-way digital BBE crossover. It's been good to me and and I know for a fact that upgrading to a UX3600 would be a game changer and I'm sure I would notice a world of difference. Just need to find one for sale for a fair price. :)

Someone had mentioned that even running 2 DBX Drive racks would make a noticeable difference. Any truth to that? (1 to run the subs and 1 to run the mains)
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Steven Eudaly

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Re: Recommended Sub amp for my system?
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2017, 05:15:56 pm »

The biggest improvement to the system might be getting an EAW UX8800 processor to replace the BBE. Before swapping out speakers and amps, why not try to wring out the best sound out of what you have already?

While this won't help your lack of subbage whatsoever, I do give this suggestion a huge second. You will notice a huge improvement with a UX dsp and will wonder why you didn't do it sooner.

You might hear a difference between the BBE and a Driverack (but probably not), and it still won't be the "right" solution and will greatly compromise the system's sound quality.

But regarding the subs, if you're missing low end at big events and outdoors with what you've got, a new amp isn't going to fix the problem. You either need to get more subs that match what you already have or sell the Carvins and replace with something with more output.

Scott Holtzman

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Re: Recommended Sub amp for my system?
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2017, 05:43:37 pm »

While this won't help your lack of subbage whatsoever, I do give this suggestion a huge second. You will notice a huge improvement with a UX dsp and will wonder why you didn't do it sooner.

You might hear a difference between the BBE and a Driverack (but probably not), and it still won't be the "right" solution and will greatly compromise the system's sound quality.

But regarding the subs, if you're missing low end at big events and outdoors with what you've got, a new amp isn't going to fix the problem. You either need to get more subs that match what you already have or sell the Carvins and replace with something with more output.

I have to third the processor and add that the subs are really woefully inadequate.  Since clearly weight is not an issue there are some great deals on SM1000Z's out there.  Nothing beats boxes.  Power just doesn't make that big a difference.

Two examples.  We are going from 6 to 12 Meyer 650's not a new box by any means but you can't compare them with the MI subs, they are just in a different class than even our STS 828's   12 is going to keep up with 16 dual 10" Italian line array elements.

Second, I have had to run the STX828's at 1200 watts a side and honestly could not tell the difference from 4k with live rock music.  I am sure EDM would be different but that's not our world.

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Sam Costa

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Re: Recommended Sub amp for my system?
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2017, 07:52:48 pm »

I have to third the processor and add that the subs are really woefully inadequate.  Since clearly weight is not an issue there are some great deals on SM1000Z's out there.  Nothing beats boxes.  Power just doesn't make that big a difference.

Two examples.  We are going from 6 to 12 Meyer 650's not a new box by any means but you can't compare them with the MI subs, they are just in a different class than even our STS 828's   12 is going to keep up with 16 dual 10" Italian line array elements.

Second, I have had to run the STX828's at 1200 watts a side and honestly could not tell the difference from 4k with live rock music.  I am sure EDM would be different but that's not our world.

Scott, thanks for the info.
I tried searching " SM1000z" and couldn't find anything on these boxes. Do you have any additional info on them? If however you meant SB1000 (EAW) then yes I would love some of those. I have a pair of SB600 for smaller venues which work GREAT btw.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 07:54:49 pm by Sam Costa »
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Recommended Sub amp for my system?
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2017, 08:01:20 pm »

Scott, thanks for the info.
I tried searching " SM1000z" and couldn't find anything on these boxes. Do you have any additional info on them? If however you meant SB1000 (EAW) then yes I would love some of those. I have a pair of SB600 for smaller venues which work GREAT btw.

Sorry typ0 SB1000z EAW storied monster subs.  They will also work great with the processor.   You would be tits deep in sound if you picked these up and the upgraded processor.

http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,161558.msg1485336.html#msg1485336

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Sam Costa

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Re: Recommended Sub amp for my system?
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2017, 08:21:47 pm »

Sorry typ0 SB1000z EAW storied monster subs.  They will also work great with the processor.   You would be tits deep in sound if you picked these up and the upgraded processor.

http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,161558.msg1485336.html#msg1485336

Ahhhh... Ok. I'll have to take a look at those. Perhaps pick up a pair of SB1000's nd see how it goes compared to the 4 Carvin cabs I use.
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Kemper Watson

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Re: Recommended Sub amp for my system?
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2017, 08:42:54 pm »

Ahhhh... Ok. I'll have to take a look at those. Perhaps pick up a pair of SB1000's nd see how it goes compared to the 4 Carvin cabs I use.

You would be better off upgrading the subs. The Carvins will not keep up with properly powered and processed 650's. Two SB1000 should be infinitely better than the Carvins. Try your best to get the Ux8800. You'll have a complete system then
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Recommended Sub amp for my system?
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2017, 10:38:00 pm »

Hi Sam-

I'm joining the dog pile regarding both the SB1000 subs and the UX processing.  Both will do you a world of good.  If you're mostly finding your subs lacking when outdoors or in larger rooms and your'e not doing those often, get the processor first and buy the subs as deals appear.

Your customers are much more likely to notice the very audible difference in the KF600s as you'll use the UX on every gig.

Call an EAW dealer and get quotes on the UX8800.  A quick 'net search found a used unit for $2400 and new for <$3600.

Yeah, I know that's a big chunk of change.  These are the kinds of purchase decisions that tend to hinge on bigger questions like "do I plan on remaining with or expanding my EAW inventory?"  If yes, the processing is worth it.  Hearing your 600s with "focused" processing will make you smile, really.  You might not be able to increase your fee but you'll add another 5 years to the market longevity of your loudspeakers.  What else can you do to make them remain appealing to your clients for 5 years?  And if you purchase other EAW products you'll have the processor for them :)

If you're not sure how much longer you'll have the KF600s or if you're wanting to jump brands in the next 1-2 years, skip the processing *and* the subs and just start piecing together your new rig.  Until then, rent subs and power for the gigs that need extra oomph.
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: Recommended Sub amp for my system?
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2017, 11:25:24 pm »

I didn't notice that he was using Carvin subs.  Likely to have the same EMI drivers as the Yamaha Club boxes.  600W AES each.  Stepping up to boxes loaded with RCF or 18-Sound 1100W drivers with higher efficiency would be like doubling the number of subs he has now.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Recommended Sub amp for my system?
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2017, 11:33:04 pm »

I didn't notice that he was using Carvin subs.  Likely to have the same EMI drivers as the Yamaha Club boxes.  600W AES each.  Stepping up to boxes loaded with RCF or 18-Sound 1100W drivers with higher efficiency would be like doubling the number of subs he has now.

Yeah, and if he's gonna keep the KF600s the incremental spending steps would be different if his current subs weren't doing it for the majority of his gigs, like buying the first SB1000z he can find... and then another, and THEN the UX8800.  Then more subs :)  You can't have too much sub 8)
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut
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