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Author Topic: Looking for a referral - Sound reduction (exterior sound bleed)  (Read 8638 times)

Jerome Malsack

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Re: Looking for a referral - Sound reduction (exterior sound bleed)
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2017, 07:27:16 PM »

yes lets look at the one building and not even consider the leaky holes in the second building where the complaints are coming from.  There are two sides of this problem.  You should negotiate that the second building and complaints should also add to the acoustic corrections.  Where is the vents for all the systems located.  on the Roof on what side.  does the building have dryer vents that are on the wall facing your building.  how about the stove.  and ventilation.


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Robert Healey

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Re: Looking for a referral - Sound reduction (exterior sound bleed)
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2017, 08:44:42 PM »

yes lets look at the one building and not even consider the leaky holes in the second building where the complaints are coming from.  There are two sides of this problem.  You should negotiate that the second building and complaints should also add to the acoustic corrections.  Where is the vents for all the systems located.  on the Roof on what side.  does the building have dryer vents that are on the wall facing your building.  how about the stove.  and ventilation.

For most cities in the US, none of that matters unless you can work out an agreement with the neighbors - who are unlikely to be accommodating. The maximum noise levels in the city code are usually specified at the property line, outdoors.
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Tom Danley

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Re: Looking for a referral - Sound reduction (exterior sound bleed)
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2017, 09:24:43 AM »

My buddy has a venue and has neighbors that are getting a little fussy with the subwoofer kick thumping. I'm looking for someone in the Southern California area that can help consult with them on what needs to be done to get their exterior sound bleed under control.

Was considering suggesting a cardiod sub array, but not sure if that will really help.

Hit me up via PM or feel free to reply on here

Josh Billings

In the 80’s I got tired of being called by the police in the middle of the night when we were doing life testing of the Servodrive subwoofers at Intersonics. It only took a few trips in the middle of the night to shut it off before a solution was imperative.

Some solutions have been described already but this might be helpful too.
Obviously sound is pressure, pressure which alternates positive and negative and at say 132dB, this represents an alternating  peak pressure of about 2 pounds per square foot of area.  This force is felt by say a wall and it is the walls mass and stiffness and the duration the pressure is applied that determines how far that wall will move in and out in response.  That movement-radiates the attenuated sound on the other side.

There is a complication too, stiffness and mass are opposite reactive forces and when paired as in a wall (or a loudspeaker cone in a box), one also has a resonance or resonant frequency. As in other parts of audio, the sharpness of that resonance is the Q and by adding things which have mechanical resistance (like drywall, construction adhesive etc) the Q of a resonance can be lowered / broadened. 
 In a room a diaphragm like wall resonance usually produces a suck out and not a peak as instead of a ridged boundary, it has give and losses.  The “limp mass” mentioned reduces the stiffness and any significant resonance but increases the mechanical losses so that the act of simply moving the barrier dissipates a lot of the energy.   
Another approach that works higher in frequency is various densities of fiberglass panels, these have a large amount of acoustic friction on the pressure as it propagates through it.

Anyway, at Intersonics we made a “death room” which had about 35dB of attenuation at 40Hz and lots more above and that ended the police calls and late night trips to shut it down.

It was a basic design I took from a sound control handbook and it went like this.

The header and footer was a 2x6, the studs were 2x4’s that were alternated so that the inside and outside walls were not connected other than at the top and bottom.  The 2x4’s were covered with ¼ luan (cheap)  plywood glued to the 2x4’s and then 5/8 drywall inside and out glued and screwed.  The roof was the same construction and basically set on top like a cap and under the footers and between the roof and walls was carpet as a seal.
There was a 90 degree L aluminum in each corner top to bottom and the door had the same construction and sealed with foam tape and carpet.   To make it nicer for testing non-subwoofers, we hung heavy shag carpet on (spaced just away from) the walls.
In your case, you might want to play band passed pink noise and go outside and see if there is a “hot spot” on the building that could be treated on the inside with a similar or other barrier.
Hope that helps
Tom

I should have mentioned a couple other things too, the warehouse building that the sound was leaking through and disturbing neighbors was cinderblock with red brick on the outside and while the test was running, you could clearly feel the wall.   In a simple building, the large open spans of wall and ceiling are where the movement usually is as X dB =  X pressure per sq foot.

Also, the sound room / barrier construction I mentioned is actually a lossy 3 element acoustic low pass filter and the electrical analogue might be considered to be an input parallel C (mass), a series L (the air between the walls as a spring) and a parallel C (mass) on the output.  The 35dB attenuation at 40Hz is a lot, a reduction of about 3000:1 in energy.

« Last Edit: October 19, 2017, 10:26:49 AM by Tom Danley »
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Simon Lewis

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Re: Looking for a referral - Sound reduction (exterior sound bleed)
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2017, 10:04:43 AM »

Most applied acoustics texts will cover "sound transmission through partitions" in some depth...
At very low frequencies, the stiffness of the partition is the dominant effect, followed by the partition resonance at slightly higher frequencies.
This website has some good coverage on the issue... http://www.sekon.cc/acoustics/SoundTransmission/index.htm
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Jerome Malsack

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Re: Looking for a referral - Sound reduction (exterior sound bleed)
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2017, 09:21:59 AM »

Correct on the acoustics and sound transmission.  So when the building was built did they do any testing, and build the building to reduce the problems?  No they sold these condos and used standard building practices and up to code only.  Did they put any noise control on the ventilation, most likely not because that would cost money.  Did they upgrade the drywall to acoustic control, are the gaps filled with acoustic sealant.  Not correctly caulked.  Outlets and penetrations are open with no sealant and treatment.
 
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Simon Lewis

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Re: Looking for a referral - Sound reduction (exterior sound bleed)
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2017, 10:03:29 AM »

So when the building was built did they do any testing, and build the building to reduce the problems...?
Of course they didn't... Even buildings where those things are *meant* to have been done usually get done badly (if it all) and need someone from the acoustic design team checking for correct work at every stage.

Whilst the poor state of sound reduction is a sore point for bands, sound company owners and venue operators, it should also be borne in mind that our collective addiction to low frequencies, our ability to easily produce prodigious bass levels and our propensity to mix kick and bass 12dB louder than anything else in the universe is probably not helping things... ;-)
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: Looking for a referral - Sound reduction (exterior sound bleed)
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2017, 02:07:02 PM »

The most straight forward book on the subject I've seen is by Rod Gervais, Home recording studio, build it like the pros.  He busts a number of common myths and gives a straight run down on construction techniques that work at various cost points.  LF is the most difficult to contain as diaphragmatic transmission is easier at low frequencies.
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Robert Healey

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Re: Looking for a referral - Sound reduction (exterior sound bleed)
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2017, 04:59:33 PM »

While there is  valuable experience in studio design, there are a lot of differences between sound isolation in studios and in larger buildings, especially in construction techniques that may not be allowed in assembly spaces.

As I mentioned earlier, an acoustical consultant can help. The OP will probably need an architect and a general contractor once they start modifying the building to implement a consultant's recommendations, too. This is outside of DIY territory (disclaimer: I am an acoustical consultant). As long as we are listing general references, however, here are two building-focused references that contain good information for general reference.

A Guide To Airborne, Impact, and Structure Borne Noise Control in Muftifamily Dwellings is an excellent overview. It is 50 years old and has been ignored by architects for the same period of time: http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED024212.pdf

Handbook of Acoustical Measurement and Noise Control by  Cyril M. Harris. Technical but very through.

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Richard Turner

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Re: Looking for a referral - Sound reduction (exterior sound bleed)
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2017, 09:04:45 AM »

foambymail.com I thhink they have those bass trap corner things
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Looking at retiring. Local PA market has shrank to 2 guys with guitars and bose l1 compacts or expecting full line array and 16 movers on stage for $300... no middle left going back to event DJ stuff, half the work for twice the pay.

Simon Lewis

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Re: Looking for a referral - Sound reduction (exterior sound bleed)
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2017, 02:30:00 PM »

foambymail.com I thhink they have those bass trap corner things

That's not the right product for stopping sound transmission...
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Looking for a referral - Sound reduction (exterior sound bleed)
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2017, 02:30:00 PM »


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