Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Chris Hindle]

Also note that tying in to house systems is not in the financial interest of the PA system provider.  Further, it requires a tacit admission that "our work and products are not up to the task."  NOBODY wants to communicate that to clients.

So instead, you SHOW 80,000 paying customers ?
I dunno, there's got to be a middle ground somewhere.
What are the chances that the A-1 took one look around, and said "Shit. This is going to be a BAD night".
I know I've done that once or twice when rig provided was not up to the task at hand. i made it all work out, but jeez. 4 times the budget would have been nice.
Chris.

[Justice C. Bigler]

What are the chances that the A-1 took one look around, and said "Shit. This is going to be a BAD night".

I'm willing to bet he got paid. So it was a good night for him.


The reality is that some touring people are wiling to use the some/all of the house systems. Some aren't. I've had Broadway tours come in that have tied into my main PA system while hanging and running their own main system, as well as tie into my balcony delays. Most of the Broadway tours will tie into our balcony system and FOH/Backstage program systems. A few have nto tied into anything except our hearing assist. 

[Scott Holtzman]

Phil...amazing.  thanks for the pics. 

I was recovering from surgery during the Republican convention and moving slowly.  Poor Henry Cohen was patient with me.  The walk from the broadcast truck bays to the floor was about 1/2 mile.  Can't imaging how physically taxing  working MB must be.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

[Scott Holtzman]

Justice...Most folks are risk averse and making the two systems play together is outside their comfort zone.  All risk with little reward.  If it works who is going to notice and reward the positive behavior.  If it doesn't work it's on the engineers head.

On the other hand deploying the system as designed affords little personal risk.  Doing what your told you can't be blamed for a negative outcome. 

On a small scale we did a dance/cheer event at a local venue with about a 10k cap.  Our scope was to deploy our stacks and make the deck bump for the kids and parents. 

Lots of announcements and people milling around the venue manager from the local offered a tie in to the venue system.  We compressed the music and added in the announcement mics and sent the mix to them.  The promoter said nobody had done that before.  We got more dates from the company.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

[Jack Arnott]

I'm willing to bet he got paid. So it was a good night for him.

If the only criteria on "good night" is getting paid, why are we even having this discussion?

It was obviously not a good night.

[Jack Arnott]

The advice on these audio boards is ALWAYS do what is rider friendly, has proven ROI, and is cross rentable.
Doing anything for the simple reason that it sounds good is NEVER good business advice.

One bad gig is not going to change any industry standards.

[Tim McCulloch]

The advice on these audio boards is ALWAYS do what is rider friendly, has proven ROI, and is cross rentable.
Doing anything for the simple reason that it sounds good is NEVER good business advice.

One bad gig is not going to change any industry standards.

What this is more likely to do:  eliminate MB Stadium as a concert venue - no promoter wants the liability of refunding tickets and no artist's manager will accept that liability, or the costs to provide enough PA to provide the "experience" will result in onerous price increases.

What is unlikely to happen:  tying in to the house system unless the VENUE subsidizes the cost of the advancing, provides free rent for the additional day of use while integrating, aligning and optimizing the tour & installed systems, and provides the house system at no additional charge to tour or promoter.  This doesn't include another days rental on the tour PA, the costs of touring crew, and the loss of revenue by having those assets tied up on a non-performance day.  Note that this also precludes the tour from a paying date.

We'll know in 6 months to a year or so how my predictions turn out.

[Jack Arnott]

or the costs to provide enough PA to provide the "experience" will result in onerous price increases.

A) shouldn't this be scaleable? $X/ticket goes to production. With 80,000X you should have enough to give sound to the audience.

1A) Isn't this also a given paradox? That part of the experience is going to be the experience of 80,000 people, and that you are going to have to give up something in return? EG, not being able to even tell if that is Garth Brooks on stage.

2) Isn't it ironic that I have a Clair Bros ad banner on my page?

I agree that the market will figure itself out. I already have. I would much rather go to a smaller venue, or a house concert, but sometimes I have to brave the crowds to see certain acts.

It just seems like a lot of hand wringing with advise that runs counter to what is usually posited here.

[Jack Arnott]

Note that this also precludes the tour from a paying date.

This kind of states that there was a void there before, and that there are no other places to play. I'm sure the lure of an 80,000 person pay date is attractive, but that there was another more proven venue that they will go back to.

[Tim McCulloch]

A) shouldn't this be scaleable? $X/ticket goes to production. With 80,000X you should have enough to give sound to the audience.

1A) Isn't this also a given paradox? That part of the experience is going to be the experience of 80,000 people, and that you are going to have to give up something in return? EG, not being able to even tell if that is Garth Brooks on stage.

2) Isn't it ironic that I have a Clair Bros ad banner on my page?

I agree that the market will figure itself out. I already have. I would much rather go to a smaller venue, or a house concert, but sometimes I have to brave the crowds to see certain acts.

It just seems like a lot of hand wringing with advise that runs counter to what is usually posited here.

The top end concert provisioning biz is not the same business that most of us at the regional, local, or lounge-level experience.  To quote someone else, whatever ain't physics is psychology.  I'm sure there was much hand-wringing and clutching of pearls in Lititz , Nashville and in Stillwater over this.  The immediate way to avoid massive negative publicity is to NOT DO what garnered that negativity.  That's the first step.

I'm not sure that scaling up the production to the expectation of "the experience" is commensurate with ticket prices and the cheapest seats are the ones needing the most enhancement.  Couple this with the resonant cavities that Ivan mentions and Phil provided pictures of and the challenge is not just hanging more PA around the bowl.

Avoiding MB Stadium until all the pesky details are worked out (more PA?  House system tie-in?  Acoustical treatment as recommended by another installation design?) is the likely outcome.  The economies of scale for an act like Garth Brooks is based on playing 1 date for 60k-80k versus playing 5 dates for the same number of people; what will make the difference is how much resources must be deployed (time & money) to make MB Stadium an acceptable environment for that one show day.  If it takes a week of non-revenue generating days to make this all work, it's mostly a wash as the artist would be better off playing shows for fans than paying salary and per diems to the band and its artistic crew while waiting for MB Stadium to be ready.

No matter what, I will further predict that ticket prices will increase by 20% because of the cost of providing "the experience" in that venue, regardless of what the technical details are.

[ProSoundWeb Community]