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Author Topic: I could hear every word from the announcer but...  (Read 36416 times)

Ivan Beaver

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Re: I could hear every word from the announcer but...
« Reply #50 on: October 17, 2017, 08:35:51 PM »

It is my understanding that there was acoustic treatment included in the design but it has not been installed at this time.
In order for the original designed system (line arrays), the designer proposed $3,000,000.00 worth of acoustical treatment in order to get the model to get a STIpa of 0.5.

The current installed system modeled STIpa at 0.65 with NO acoustical treatment.

So none was installed.

That may change now.  With will only increase the STIpa measurement :)
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Ivan Beaver

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Re: I could hear every word from the announcer but...
« Reply #51 on: October 17, 2017, 08:42:47 PM »

We can speculate all day long about what happened in this show...my take away:

From the footage of the show I saw (multiple angles), it looks like the main PA was only covering the "lower bowl" of the stadium... I didn't see ANY delays...the comment from the MBC executives elude to the fact that the installed system WAS used on the Garth Brooks show.
First you MUST use your full real name on these forums.

Second. Look at the photo below.  You can CLEARLY see the delays.  There are 10 hangs (not all are shown in the photo)

Those line arrays are NOT the house system.  There are NO line arrays in the house system.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Scott Holtzman

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Re: I could hear every word from the announcer but...
« Reply #52 on: October 18, 2017, 02:48:59 AM »

First you MUST use your full real name on these forums.

Second. Look at the photo below.  You can CLEARLY see the delays.  There are 10 hangs (not all are shown in the photo)

Those line arrays are NOT the house system.  There are NO line arrays in the house system.

That picture truly puts the scale of that room in perspective.  That is a huge space.  It makes the Q in Cleveland look like a shed.

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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Craig Hauber

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Re: I could hear every word from the announcer but...
« Reply #53 on: October 18, 2017, 11:15:23 AM »

That picture truly puts the scale of that room in perspective.  That is a huge space.  It makes the Q in Cleveland look like a shed.

And that place makes where he played nearest me seem like an outhouse!

 -Billings MT where he played a 10,000 seat rodeo arena.  Had to do 5 shows (In 3 days) to fit everyone in.

That particular space definitely needed full production support, -Atlanta not so much it seems.

Although getting tours to use properly installed house systems is firmly against the decades-long traditions that unfortunately already have a lock on our relatively new industry.
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Craig Hauber
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: I could hear every word from the announcer but...
« Reply #54 on: October 18, 2017, 11:56:08 AM »

And that place makes where he played nearest me seem like an outhouse!

 -Billings MT where he played a 10,000 seat rodeo arena.  Had to do 5 shows (In 3 days) to fit everyone in.

That particular space definitely needed full production support, -Atlanta not so much it seems.

Although getting tours to use properly installed house systems is firmly against the decades-long traditions that unfortunately already have a lock on our relatively new industry.

Gentlemen and Ladies, see Craig's definitive answer in bold.  Ultimately it's a "people" issue.
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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: I could hear every word from the announcer but...
« Reply #55 on: October 18, 2017, 12:44:41 PM »

Gentlemen and Ladies, see Craig's definitive answer in bold.  Ultimately it's a "people" issue.

But that's not unique to this industry.  In almost any industry you will find procedures in place that when you really get the honest answer to "Why are we doing it this way this time?" the answer is "Because we did it that way last time" or "because we always do it that way".

It takes effort to step back, look and figure out the best way to do any job.  Of course, you also have to balance that with not re-inventing the wheel everytime!
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Steve Swaffer

Phil Graham

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Re: I could hear every word from the announcer but...
« Reply #56 on: October 18, 2017, 12:48:27 PM »

That picture truly puts the scale of that room in perspective.  That is a huge space.  It makes the Q in Cleveland look like a shed.

Scott, its possible that Ivan, Tom D, and I are the only people in this thread who have physically spent time in this room. It is HUGE, the entirety of the adjacent old stadium (roof included) would fit inside the air conditioned volume of this space.

For scale in the photo above of the Clair Cohesion delays, the very dark area that you see is a 360 degree video wall hung above the upper deck seating. This wall is 53' feet high. You can just see the supporting steel at the top of the wall in the middle of the photo. And then there's a retractable center roof above that. I've attached a better picture of that video wall structure below.

Also, unlike a typical stadium, the concourses are very deep and spacious. There are very substantial volumes of space behind every area of seating. For perspective, I've attached a picture of one of the 4 sided bars that ring the main seating level. There are at least 4 bars this size. I've also attached a view of the "standard" food stall throughout the building. These ring the seating. Bathrooms are tucked behind them.

Large horns, or a full range cardioid-type array would be the only feasible approaches in this room.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 12:51:46 PM by Phil Graham »
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brian maddox

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Re: I could hear every word from the announcer but...
« Reply #57 on: October 18, 2017, 02:37:57 PM »

...

Although getting tours to use properly installed house systems is firmly against the decades-long traditions that unfortunately already have a lock on our relatively new industry.

As usual someone else finds a way to say what i meant to say with greater clarity and far fewer words.

tl;dr    this^^
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"It feels wrong to be in the audience.  And it's too peopley!" - Steve Smith

brian maddox
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: I could hear every word from the announcer but...
« Reply #58 on: October 18, 2017, 02:57:37 PM »

Also note that tying in to house systems is not in the financial interest of the PA system provider.  Further, it requires a tacit admission that "our work and products are not up to the task."  NOBODY wants to communicate that to clients.
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"If you're passing on your way, from Palm Springs to L.A., Give a wave to good ol' Dave, Say hello to progress and goodbye to the Moonlight Motor Inn." - Steve Spurgin, Moonlight Motor Inn

John L Nobile

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Re: I could hear every word from the announcer but...
« Reply #59 on: October 18, 2017, 03:15:50 PM »

Also note that tying in to house systems is not in the financial interest of the PA system provider.  Further, it requires a tacit admission that "our work and products are not up to the task."  NOBODY wants to communicate that to clients.

Perfect. You summed up this thread in 2 lines.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: I could hear every word from the announcer but...
« Reply #59 on: October 18, 2017, 03:15:50 PM »


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