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Author Topic: Worth checking out or avoid like the plague?  (Read 1278 times)

TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: Worth checking out or avoid like the plague?
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2017, 11:48:04 pm »

Thanks for the info. Also TJ what are you running for video right now? If I want to do video what is the best route right now, within a reasonable budget? Some events I could see large TV's working well, while others a projector would be better. I like the idea of a laser projector, but I assume the prices shall keep on falling and it is still a very expensive way to get out of replacing lamps.

No theater haha. Mostly pretty small shows and conferences 100-600ish, depending on the event. Stages are usually 20x30ish, mostly bands with 4-10 members.  The more I think about it what I really need at the moment is just some wash to properly build the ambiance, I think combined with some tactful drape that would go along way. I like the LED wash light bars, however are there any that are good or stand above the rest (to use in conjunction with pars)?

Most larger places we have been I would probably just need to light the stage area, rather than the audience, that can come down the road or I can rent if it is needed that bad. Good point on the camera portion, we are about to get our first decent camera (mostly for light streaming/conference recording). As of yet I do not have any truss, that will be one of my next steps.

Question: There are some event spaces I have been running into lately that have one particular wall that gives quite the slap back or halls that were simply not designed for rock music. While this is of course a scenario dependent question is it possible to use thicker drape as a sort of absorption, or would this simply not be cost effective?

Haha so far my demoing has been bothering TJ and checking his stuff out. Thanks TJ!  ;D

--
Matthias
4500 lumen projectors are passable on 12' wide screens under moderate light.  These are the sweet spot right now for price, around $1500 or so.  The price goes up RAPIDLY from there.  TVs aren't big enough to be useful, and don't fold for transport.  :)

You can make light bars out of any kind of PAR fixture.  Most of the pre-fabs are low-end stuff.  I would make your own.

Curtains help a bit with live rooms, but you're not going to make much of a dent unless you have an impractical amount of fabric.
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Matthias McCready

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Re: Worth checking out or avoid like the plague?
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2017, 02:07:42 pm »

4500 lumen projectors are passable on 12' wide screens under moderate light.  These are the sweet spot right now for price, around $1500 or so.  The price goes up RAPIDLY from there.  TVs aren't big enough to be useful, and don't fold for transport.  :)

You can make light bars out of any kind of PAR fixture.  Most of the pre-fabs are low-end stuff.  I would make your own.

Curtains help a bit with live rooms, but you're not going to make much of a dent unless you have an impractical amount of fabric.

TV's would work for lyrics at the front of some of the smaller places, however that being said you are right projectors are probably better as they are more transportable and work for larger venues also. I saw this Sony Laser projector: goo.gl/pnzwdE which is cheaper than I expected (yes, I know it is not full HD). I am assuming price will come down more and perhaps I should wait longer, I do not need one yet, but I would like to start keeping an eye out.

Point taken on par's, however the Chauvet Ovation B-565FC looks intriguing. It seems to be bright and while it appears not to have mounting options I am really am mostly looking for uplighting/stage wash. Perhaps that could be a good starting place that would be useful in the future as well. I am liking the Chauvet recommendation I have spent some time looking through their pro line and the Colorado stuff also looks like it could be an option.

As I thought on the absorption... although if I did carry "mattresses" around with me I could at least shout "go to the mattresses!"  ;D

Matthias
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Jeff Lelko

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Re: Worth checking out or avoid like the plague?
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2017, 05:09:23 pm »

I like the LED wash light bars, however are there any that are good or stand above the rest (to use in conjunction with pars)?

When mixing types of light fixtures, it really helps to use units all from the same "series".  An example of this would be using some Elation Sixbars alongside Elation Sixpars.  That way your colors should be consistent between all the fixtures.  Mixing and matching products from different brands doesn't always equal matching colors.  As TJ said, you can always array individual Pars to make bars too should you go that route. 

No comment from me about projectors or audio, but hopefully that's enough to help!
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: Worth checking out or avoid like the plague?
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2017, 11:44:26 am »

TV's would work for lyrics at the front of some of the smaller places, however that being said you are right projectors are probably better as they are more transportable and work for larger venues also. I saw this Sony Laser projector: goo.gl/pnzwdE which is cheaper than I expected (yes, I know it is not full HD). I am assuming price will come down more and perhaps I should wait longer, I do not need one yet, but I would like to start keeping an eye out.
Full HD is not particularly important, 1280x800 is what I use and it's fine.  Laser light sources are clearly the future, but right now there's a significant price premium for it.  It makes sense if the projector is used a lot, but for what you and I do for occasional use, it's more likely that a single bulb will last the life of the projector.  The last projectors I oversaw were a couple Panasonic 4500 lumens that we paid less than $1300 each for - basically half of the Sony you link.
Point taken on par's, however the Chauvet Ovation B-565FC looks intriguing. It seems to be bright and while it appears not to have mounting options I am really am mostly looking for uplighting/stage wash. Perhaps that could be a good starting place that would be useful in the future as well. I am liking the Chauvet recommendation I have spent some time looking through their pro line and the Colorado stuff also looks like it could be an option.

As I thought on the absorption... although if I did carry "mattresses" around with me I could at least shout "go to the mattresses!"  ;D

Matthias
The Chauvet Ovation you mention is a great product, but is 2 1/2 times the price of the SlimPAR Pros.  Batten fixtures are great and can make a better wash, but they're fiddly and a full row of them is time consuming to setup and very expensive.  Will your customers pay for this?
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Caleb Dueck

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Re: Worth checking out or avoid like the plague?
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2017, 12:36:15 pm »

Laser projectors don't have much price premium anymore, except slightly at the low end of the market.  In church install land, we haven't given a lamp-based budget option recently because there hasn't been one.  I haven't checked the boardroom/classroom level models, as we're not in that market. 

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Mike Monte

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Re: Worth checking out or avoid like the plague?
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2017, 12:04:46 am »

You need to work out why you are getting into lights.

If this is just a hobby, buy whatever seems cheap and cool.

If you plan on renting lights out, you need to have what people want to rent.  If you are planning on doing shows, you need to have enough customers for the kind of shows you can do with the gear you have.  You'll double the cost of the lights paying for trusses, clamps, cables, cases, etc.  The youtube show used a lot of lights.
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Mark Cadwallader

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Re: Worth checking out or avoid like the plague?
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2017, 12:21:44 am »

If you are considering a heavy fabric for sound damping or absorbsion, I suggest that you pay close attention to the fire retardant properties of the drapes. Cotton velvet is the classic choice, but it needs annual retardant application to be properly protected. Polyester is (can be) IFR - inherently flame retardant. Even if the local AHJ doesn't check it, proper material is the right way to go.
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Scott Hofmann

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Re: Worth checking out or avoid like the plague?
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2017, 09:52:43 am »

If you are considering a heavy fabric for sound damping or absorbsion, I suggest that you pay close attention to the fire retardant properties of the drapes. Cotton velvet is the classic choice, but it needs annual retardant application to be properly protected. Polyester is (can be) IFR - inherently flame retardant. Even if the local AHJ doesn't check it, proper material is the right way to go.
Surely you mean "velour" and not "velvet" as the classic choice for stage or sound absorbing curtains. FR velour curtains do not need "annual retardant application". Yes, the FR treatment loses its effectiveness over time, but that is over many years. If annual retardant application were the case, every theatre in the country could not afford to have curtains.
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Matt Greiner

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Re: Worth checking out or avoid like the plague?
« Reply #18 on: Yesterday at 12:16:11 am »

Lighting specifications are notoriously hard to compare - different manufacturers specify different distances, different beam and/or field angles, zooming fixtures have different efficiencies at different parts of the zoom range, etc.  One immutable thing is power consumption, and I've found that's as good an indication of brightness as anything else.  There are small differences in emitter efficiency I'm sure, but when comparing lights of similar vintage, those differences will be small.  Therefore, in broad strokes, a light that draws 100 watts will be roughly twice as bright as a light that draws 50 watts, etc.  The SlimPar Pro fixtures I mentioned are in this 100 watt area and are usefully bright.  I would be wary of anything that takes less power.

Thank you for this explanation TJ.  I was trying to type of a way to pose this question without being too wordy in regards to comparing similar fixtures from different manufacturers.  And it makes sense, when you think about it.  I'm guessing some manufacturers are trying to be a little sneaky with some of their numbers, but this method makes it a lot more difficult to hide. 
Thanks!
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Mark Cadwallader

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Re: Worth checking out or avoid like the plague?
« Reply #19 on: Yesterday at 09:16:20 pm »

Surely you mean "velour" and not "velvet" as the classic choice for stage or sound absorbing curtains. FR velour curtains do not need "annual retardant application". Yes, the FR treatment loses its effectiveness over time, but that is over many years. If annual retardant application were the case, every theatre in the country could not afford to have curtains.

You are correct; "velour", not velvet. My error - duh!  Likewise, some jurisdictions (as I understand it) require annual FR testing, not application.  Thank you for catching my errors. I clearly need more sleep (and/or fewer Nutcracker rehearsals and performances).
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