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Author Topic: Phase-aligned overlap??  (Read 3108 times)

Mac Kerr

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Re: Phase-aligned overlap??
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2017, 07:55:21 pm »

Ultra series and their associated subs, yes ?....  I'm thinking subs to mains is the gist of the x-over discussion....

How are there not crossovers in that system? Ultra series required specific external processing for all speakers, and the full range systems were bi-ampped. How do you bi-amp without crossovers?

Mac
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Mark Wilkinson

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Re: Phase-aligned overlap??
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2017, 09:35:43 pm »

How are there not crossovers in that system? Ultra series required specific external processing for all speakers, and the full range systems were bi-ampped. How do you bi-amp without crossovers?

Mac

Ultra powered systems.  for example  UPA-1P's with USW-1P's or 650-P's, or MTS4's with PSW-4's.
No x-overs needed, right?
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Phase-aligned overlap??
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2017, 11:42:15 pm »

Ultra powered systems.  for example  UPA-1P's with USW-1P's or 650-P's, or MTS4's with PSW-4's.
No x-overs needed, right?

No. Just because the crossovers are built into the electronics in the speaker doesn't mean they're not there. Every one of those systems has the band pass filters built into the internal amplifiers.

Mac
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Mark Wilkinson

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Re: Phase-aligned overlap??
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2017, 10:06:59 am »

No. Just because the crossovers are built into the electronics in the speaker doesn't mean they're not there. Every one of those systems has the band pass filters built into the internal amplifiers.

Mac

Hi Mac, sure.
I've been taking the internal processing as a given,....... that the point of bringing Meyer up was that no additional external crossover is needed between subs and mains.

Because of the way Meyer keeps such smooth consistent phase traces with its mains.
And also with its subs, that achieve overlap over a fairly wide frequency range between mains and subs.
I mean, the 650-p mates well with a number of tops without any need of a crossover, tops that have varying low end extension.
(Oh, and pls pardon my example of the MTS4 and PSW mating.... it was a bad example since the MTS4 is already full range).



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Jean-Pierre Coetzee

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Re: Phase-aligned overlap??
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2017, 03:54:20 am »

Hi Mac, sure.
I've been taking the internal processing as a given,....... that the point of bringing Meyer up was that no additional external crossover is needed between subs and mains.

Because of the way Meyer keeps such smooth consistent phase traces with its mains.
And also with its subs, that achieve overlap over a fairly wide frequency range between mains and subs.
I mean, the 650-p mates well with a number of tops without any need of a crossover, tops that have varying low end extension.
(Oh, and pls pardon my example of the MTS4 and PSW mating.... it was a bad example since the MTS4 is already full range).

Yeah my apologies Mac I was not clear enough, no external crossovers, the boxes do have quite extensive processing from the factory though that TBH you cannot change.

Using speakers that are actually designed to work together and looking at what external processing does to phase response live makes me respect the work that the manufacturers do but also understand why simply slapping a crossover on a box without measuring anything will never get you amazing results unless of course you are using the exact recommendations from the manufacturer.

For Mark:

Meyer has cross generation information available as well if you contact them, we are using ultra, concert and the L series together and there you need to do some external work to make sure that everything is phase coherent, everything is possible though.

For boxes that work together quite well, generally everything with the Ultra and Concert series works pretty much together, you just need to make sure that the delays are set correctly. The newer stuff gets a bit interesting.

Likewise you probably don't need to worry about a DnB system or L'Acoustic system if it is used in one of the  recommended setups, they have got external processing in the amps though since its passive boxes.

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