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Author Topic: Suitability of 2 LABs for a smallish venue  (Read 1395 times)

davidsavill

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Re: Suitability of 2 LABs for a smallish venue
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2017, 07:10:09 pm »

Hi David, I've used a pair of labsubs in small rooms, although maybe not quite as small as you've given.
If you have the space, they should work great.  Maximum impact will come from corner stacking them together in one corner.
Either side-by-side, or one on top of another, point them in to the corner (acts like a mouth extension I'm told) and play with distance from corner.  I seem to remember about a foot and a half working well.  Then make sure you don't have stuff that can walk off shelves or counters  ;D

As far as driving them, one amp channel per box, with drivers in parallel.
Makes a pretty nice 5.6 ohm nominal box by my measurements.
Do watch out for 40Hz droning, like Art mentions.  I get 3 ohms or less from about 37 to 45 Hz. There's also a drop in impedance below 3 ohms at around 115Hz if you're crossing over higher than the norm. 
That's for one box, two together will have lessor dips.

Art gives wise voltage recommendations IMO. 
But that said, I've never run them with less than 1250w @4ohms, and prefer 2500w if the input is very dynamic.
They're tough buggers.....I've measured 130v peaks  that sound fine (with very dynamic music only).
As far as heat dissipation, I can't speak to EDM use, but I've never had a noticeable problem.

It looks like I used the same build plans you found. FWIW, Rob's comment about the Keystone being an easier build makes alot of sense to me.
I consider myself a pretty decent woodworker, grew up making specialty millwork etc, and the compound flare / miters needed by the labsub were still tricky.  Made a pretty good scrap pile.  And it's essential all the fits are air tight and solid...I think maybe alot of issues, maybe even overheating, might be due to leaks??  Art, would lack of sealing, rear chamber, or other, lower impedance ??? Just spitballing.....

Anyway, what I'm getting at is another vote for the Keystone. 
I've been thinking about building one for a long time if I can use the 18" drivers i have ,
which begs one last question Art, how would the bms 18n862 work?   thx,  mark

Awesome - thanks!
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Art Welter

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Re: Suitability of 2 LABs for a smallish venue
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2017, 12:27:30 am »

Thanks heaps for all your input Art. I should be able to avoid the sun! So I have these subs running of an XTI 4002, so 1200W a channel @ 4h ohms. Should be plenty?

Also... if the B&C18SW115 is out of reach... would you recommend the 2xLab12 as the next best thing?
Considering you can burn the LAB 12 coils at 1/4 the power of the XTI 4002, and the impedance will be closer to 2 than 4 ohms at Fc, you have plenty of power.

If you are asking about the Keystone, the B&C18TBW100-4 is quite a bit less $$ than the 18SW115, and would still outperform the LAB 12 drivers by quite a bit. Next best thing for the $$ may be an Alpine SWR-1223D, more Xmax, power handling and heat exchange than the LAB 12, and may be less $$ in Australia.

Art
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davidsavill

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Re: Suitability of 2 LABs for a smallish venue
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2017, 02:31:27 am »

Considering you can burn the LAB 12 coils at 1/4 the power of the XTI 4002, and the impedance will be closer to 2 than 4 ohms at Fc, you have plenty of power.

If you are asking about the Keystone, the B&C18TBW100-4 is quite a bit less $$ than the 18SW115, and would still outperform the LAB 12 drivers by quite a bit. Next best thing for the $$ may be an Alpine SWR-1223D, more Xmax, power handling and heat exchange than the LAB 12, and may be less $$ in Australia.

Art

Interesting... the SWR-1223D I can't seem to find (discontinued) but the SWR-12D2 is about... I assume it needs two?

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Art Welter

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Re: Suitability of 2 LABs for a smallish venue
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2017, 09:48:00 am »

Interesting... the SWR-1223D I can't seem to find (discontinued) but the SWR-12D2 is about... I assume it needs two?
Yes, it takes about two 12" to equal the cone area of one 18". The SWR-12D2 specifications are pretty much the same as the discontinued model, but has even more Xmech, and claims better heat management, both good.

What do four SWR-12D2 cost compared to four LAB 12s or two B&CTBW100-4 shipped to your location?

Art
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davidsavill

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Re: Suitability of 2 LABs for a smallish venue
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2017, 09:01:35 pm »

Yes, it takes about two 12" to equal the cone area of one 18". The SWR-12D2 specifications are pretty much the same as the discontinued model, but has even more Xmech, and claims better heat management, both good.

What do four SWR-12D2 cost compared to four LAB 12s or two B&CTBW100-4 shipped to your location?

Art

SWR-12D2 work out more than a B&CTBW100-4 with freight. Lab4's so far are cheapest as there are some within easy reach.

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Art Welter

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Re: Suitability of 2 LABs for a smallish venue
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2017, 12:06:02 am »

SWR-12D2 work out more than a B&CTBW100-4 with freight. Lab4's so far are cheapest as there are some within easy reach.
Hope your reach does not exceed your grasp, go for it and tell us of the experience after you complete it .

Cheers,
Art
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davidsavill

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Re: Suitability of 2 LABs for a smallish venue
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2017, 05:35:45 pm »

Hope your reach does not exceed your grasp, go for it and tell us of the experience after you complete it .

Cheers,
Art

I think I will. You mentioned a Keystone "B-Low", looking for anyone to try that out? :)

On the whole Lab12 question. Can you help clarify my understanding? I came across your tests when you compared 2xLab12's to the B&C18SW115-4. They look roughly comparable to my untrained eye.

I think your saying the big disadvantage of the Lab12's over the B&C18SW115-4 would be the cooling ability and of course you can pour more power into the B&C's so they would be louder overall?

Really appreciate all your input BTW, am learning a lot.
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Art Welter

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Re: Suitability of 2 LABs for a smallish venue
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2017, 06:34:41 pm »

I think I will. You mentioned a Keystone "B-Low", looking for anyone to try that out? :)

On the whole Lab12 question. Can you help clarify my understanding? I came across your tests when you compared 2xLab12's to the B&C18SW115-4. They look roughly comparable to my untrained eye.

I think your saying the big disadvantage of the Lab12's over the B&C18SW115-4 would be the cooling ability and of course you can pour more power into the B&C's so they would be louder overall?

Really appreciate all your input BTW, am learning a lot.
The LAB 12s are actually slightly more sensitive than the B&C18SW115-4, but because of their power compression, and less excursion capability, the B&C18SW115-4 has quite a bit more output potential.

The Keystone B-Low is a "qualified success", oddly the longer path length did not reduce the 35 Hz Fb from the original, simulation had predicted 29 Hz. Reducing the exit size a bit dropped the Fb to 33 Hz, they can take a good deal of EQ down low, so are able to do justice to the Low B, 31 Hz, and the larger cabinet and more sensitive 18TBW100 has made them a bit louder than the original Keystone over most of the pass band.

In fact, the initial listening test ended abruptly when a neighbor came over with complaints of her windows rattling and chest hurting. The nearest part of her house is 171 feet (52.6 meters) from the sub location!  I was already feeling a little queasy from the 30 Hz response from the first couple songs played, and at over 25 from the sub could feel the louder rock bass line modulating my voice on each note while I apologized to her and shut down.

That said, Josh Ricci's Othhorn is louder in the 27-40 Hz range than the B-Low, but the BC21SW152 he uses probably is behind that- send me a pair of them, and I'll confirm that for you ;^).

Cheers,
Art
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Spenser Hamilton

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Re: Suitability of 2 LABs for a smallish venue
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2017, 07:22:55 pm »

The LAB 12s are actually slightly more sensitive than the B&C18SW115-4, but because of their power compression, and less excursion capability, the B&C18SW115-4 has quite a bit more output potential.

The Keystone B-Low is a "qualified success", oddly the longer path length did not reduce the 35 Hz Fb from the original, simulation had predicted 29 Hz. Reducing the exit size a bit dropped the Fb to 33 Hz, they can take a good deal of EQ down low, so are able to do justice to the Low B, 31 Hz, and the larger cabinet and more sensitive 18TBW100 has made them a bit louder than the original Keystone over most of the pass band.

In fact, the initial listening test ended abruptly when a neighbor came over with complaints of her windows rattling and chest hurting. The nearest part of her house is 171 feet (52.6 meters) from the sub location!  I was already feeling a little queasy from the 30 Hz response from the first couple songs played, and at over 25 from the sub could feel the louder rock bass line modulating my voice on each note while I apologized to her and shut down.

That said, Josh Ricci's Othhorn is louder in the 27-40 Hz range than the B-Low, but the BC21SW152 he uses probably is behind that- send me a pair of them, and I'll confirm that for you ;^).

Cheers,
Art

The plans Boss, the plans!

 ;D
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Art Welter

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Re: Suitability of 2 LABs for a smallish venue
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2017, 10:45:44 am »

The plans Boss, the plans!

 ;D
The Plans will come in on the Love Boat, if it returns ;^).
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