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Author Topic: Crown XTi 6002 - 6,000 Watts - but only at 1KHz?  (Read 2781 times)

duane massey

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Re: Crown XTi 6002 - 6,000 Watts - but only at 1KHz?
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2017, 09:41:05 pm »

I seriously doubt adding more power will cure what you are unhappy about. I would point to your speakers as a more likely culprit.
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Duane Massey
Technician, musician, stubborn old guy
Houston, Texas

Jeff Schoonover1

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Re: Crown XTi 6002 - 6,000 Watts - but only at 1KHz?
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2017, 09:51:55 am »

Keep in mind though that most steady output for that sized amp will be in the hundreds of watts, not thousands. For this amp to generate 6000 watts I'm going to guess it would be pulling around 50 amps from the wall (@110v) to be able to do it:
1/3 Power Pink Noise Typical of program material at extreme clip @ 2ohms 35.2 amps 989 watts (110v)
I don't think so.  I'm not an electrical engineer but have a basic understanding of electronics.  AC volts from the wall don't convert to the DC voltage applied by the amp to the speaker by simply using Ohms Law.  There's the conversion of AC wall power to the DC power used by speakers, the ability of the amp to store voltage, varying duty cycle (Even at full power, there are times during the signal no current is being given.) Varying resistance of the load (Speakers vary resistance by frequency) Amplifier efficiency/power lost, etc. 
In short, my understanding is that consumer level amps like this can, in fact, deliver what they say they deliver from AC 12V 20A circuits.  There are of course amps (Powersoft K20) which can only deliver their maximum with greater AC supply Voltage/Current, and plainly say so in their literature, but they will do far more than 6KW.

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Jeff Schoonover1

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Re: Crown XTi 6002 - 6,000 Watts - but only at 1KHz?
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2017, 09:58:47 am »

I seriously doubt adding more power will cure what you are unhappy about. I would point to your speakers as a more likely culprit.
Hard to guess whether you mean.  If you're talking about what I have now (two 15" speakers in two 4.5Cu.Ft. boxes.  Each speaker has a program power rating of 700W, and powered by an XTi 400 pushing 3,200 W into both), then yes, my limitations exist chiefly in the speakers.  My new box, has two 18" TLW3000's, each rated at 3,200W program power.  They're in a 16 Cu.Ft. box.  The ability of this box vs. what I have now is vastly superior to my 2x15" setup - assuming I can power it correctly, which is why I started this thread.
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Scott Hofmann

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Re: Crown XTi 6002 - 6,000 Watts - but only at 1KHz?
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2017, 10:06:07 am »

I don't think so.  I'm not an electrical engineer but have a basic understanding of electronics.  AC volts from the wall don't convert to the DC voltage applied by the amp to the speaker by simply using Ohms Law.  There's the conversion of AC wall power to the DC power used by speakers, the ability of the amp to store voltage, varying duty cycle (Even at full power, there are times during the signal no current is being given.) Varying resistance of the load (Speakers vary resistance by frequency) Amplifier efficiency/power lost, etc. 
In short, my understanding is that consumer level amps like this can, in fact, deliver what they say they deliver from AC 12V 20A circuits.  There are of course amps (Powersoft K20) which can only deliver their maximum with greater AC supply Voltage/Current, and plainly say so in their literature, but they will do far more than 6KW.

You're right, you are not an electrical engineer. The voltage applied to a speaker by an amplifier is AC, not DC. Hook a battery up to your speaker and let me know what you hear.
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Scott Hofmann

Scott Holtzman

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Re: Crown XTi 6002 - 6,000 Watts - but only at 1KHz?
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2017, 10:51:33 am »

Quote
I am a bass player, the rig will be used onstage for large shows where I'm often competing with hard-hitting drummers and two marshall stacks from guys who haven't figured out that loud stage volume = bad sound, and sound men who take all bass out of the mix, except hugely overbearing and non-linear kick-drum boom.

I am surprised nobody has pointed out the absurdity of placing a double 18" on stage for your bass rig.  First it's going to destroy the stage, get into all the microphones and most important not cover the room well.

It may bathe you in the visceral feedback that you like but ultimately it is not going to achieve your goal and is very disruptive.  I don't know any engineer worth his salt that would allow you to run that on their stage, certainly lot at anywhere near it's potential.

If you need the tactile feel Mike Sokol has an article on a transducer platform that will is a great idea.  The trend is to lower stage volume, not raise it.

http://www.prosoundweb.com/channels/live-sound/now-hear-this-monitoring-approaches-in-the-quest-for-a-semi-silent-stage/
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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Crown XTi 6002 - 6,000 Watts - but only at 1KHz?
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2017, 11:31:12 am »

You're right, you are not an electrical engineer. The voltage applied to a speaker by an amplifier is AC, not DC. Hook a battery up to your speaker and let me know what you hear.
Just the term "frequency" should be enough to tell it is an AC signal, not DC.

DC has no "frequency".
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

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Jeff Schoonover1

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Re: Crown XTi 6002 - 6,000 Watts - but only at 1KHz?
« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2017, 12:26:54 pm »

You're right, you are not an electrical engineer. The voltage applied to a speaker by an amplifier is AC, not DC. Hook a battery up to your speaker and let me know what you hear.
So you're certain that amplifiers  (any electronic item, really) don't convert AC from the wall, into DC for use by its various components?
Plug a speaker into a wall outlet and let me know what you hear. :)
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Crown XTi 6002 - 6,000 Watts - but only at 1KHz?
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2017, 12:31:36 pm »

So you're certain that amplifiers  (any electronic item, really) don't convert AC from the wall, into DC for use by its various components?
Plug a speaker into a wall outlet and let me know what you hear. :)

If the speaker is rated at about 2000 watts you would get a 60hz tone.

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman
River Delta Audio is now:

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
Cleveland OH
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Jeff Schoonover1

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Re: Crown XTi 6002 - 6,000 Watts - but only at 1KHz?
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2017, 12:34:08 pm »

I am surprised nobody has pointed out the absurdity of placing a double 18" on stage for your bass rig.  First it's going to destroy the stage, get into all the microphones and most important not cover the room well.

It may bathe you in the visceral feedback that you like but ultimately it is not going to achieve your goal and is very disruptive.  I don't know any engineer worth his salt that would allow you to run that on their stage, certainly lot at anywhere near it's potential.

If you need the tactile feel Mike Sokol has an article on a transducer platform that will is a great idea.  The trend is to lower stage volume, not raise it.

http://www.prosoundweb.com/channels/live-sound/now-hear-this-monitoring-approaches-in-the-quest-for-a-semi-silent-stage/
I have been using IEMS for a couple years now.  I even own my own mixer and splitter snake for a while band to do so if they desire.  You're preaching to the choir.  I prefer no noisemakers onstage at all. But, many of the acts I work with still think they need to "feel it" onstage.  These guys bring dual Marshall stacks to club gigs, seriously.  Coupled with the fact that most of the sound guys at this level put zero bass in the mix.  It's all about kick drum, and vocals for them.  Thirdly, it's not even about loud so much, as to be able to go low, cleanly at moderate volumes. 30-40 Hz at 110-120 is easy.  Hut to do it with low distortion and linearity is difficult.  Impossible with bass rigs available at guitar center.
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Jeff Schoonover1

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Re: Crown XTi 6002 - 6,000 Watts - but only at 1KHz?
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2017, 12:35:47 pm »

If the speaker is rated at about 2000 watts you would get a 60hz tone.
Yep.  Hence the need for an amplifier, as I'd like to make some other sounds as well.
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