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[Fraser Moffatt]

Looking for tips, tricks and techniques for running a band's soundcheck. I've got a good handle on the technical aspects (levels, eq, etc) but it's the social aspect I continue to struggle with despite ongoing communication with my band.

The context: I'm the bass player/backup vox for my country band; we're weekend warriors gigging anywhere from 30-40 times a year. Many years of collective experience. We're all in our 40s/50s and each of us has been gigging since we were teens. I'm the only one who has also done sound over that period of time as well.  I also own and run the PA (DL1608 into EV mains, running wired IEMs) and am the official band sound guy. Simple tech setup, streamlined as much as can with having everything racked up and setup with wiring harnesses. Setup is a breeze.

Even though we have hundreds of gigs under our belts over the years, I seem to have constant challenges keeping the band in line when I'm line checking, sound checking and mixing. Despite attempts to explain to the guys what my process is, I often am met with "I can't hear myself" during line check. No shit, I don't have you in the monitors or mains yet. I often have trouble with the guys playing over top of each other when sound checking each instrument/vocalist. E.g., guitar player noodling when I'm mixing drums.

When mixing the band as a whole, they don't seem to appreciate that I might need them to play more than just a snippet of song to get the mix down and EQ the room. Because we run IEMs, there's often a look of confusion on thier faces when I ask them to do something specific - such as: "turn your amp down" or "keep on playing". I suppose a wireless talkback mic might be a good start.

I guess the simple answer is to contract out the soundman function, but I don't see anyone in the band agreeing to that extra cost. So, aside from that, does anyone have any suggestions on how to deal with these social/behavioural aspects of keeping a sound check running smoothly?  I'm tired of being a grumpy sound man who then has to turn 180 degrees and be an engaging performer. 

[Ken Braziel]

My first thought is that you need to "alpha-up" when it's time for sound-check, by that I mean take control of the situation like a professional sound engineer would do.

Tell them "OK we're all here, we have our instruments and mics all set up. Let's go through each instrument one at a time, as we're working on the sound of each instrument please tell me if you need that channel adjusted in your monitor." After you have gone through all the channels individually, it's time to play as much of a song as you need to get the FOH balance figured out, then stop and ask for any changes in the monitor mixes. Your EQ adjustments to make the mix work will also affect their monitor mixes so it's normal to have some adjustments as the mix settles.

If they won't respect your position as a sound engineer for the band, then it's time to talk about hiring someone else to do it. You are doing double-duty, that deserves respect during the most important time for your job as sound-engineer...

Source: 20 years playing bass & doubling as sound-engineer for various bands, now about a decade into being primarily a sound engineer.

[Chris Hindle]

Looking for tips, tricks and techniques for running a band's soundcheck. I've got a good handle on the technical aspects (levels, eq, etc) but it's the social aspect I continue to struggle with despite ongoing communication with my band.

here's a cup of my "Secret Sauce", developed over many years of hair-pulling...
First off, I get clear what everyone NEEDS in foldback. Wants is nice, but needs is a priority.
I let everyone get "tuned up", then I announce the methodology.
Drummer starts. NO, Not 1/2 hour of kick.
I ask for a simple pattern. Kick, snare, hats.
Over foldback, I ask him to add toms and metal. Toys last.
I ask Bass to join in. Give them a few moments to get a nice groove going. Add Keys, then guitars.
Now, I need a song. get main and background balanced out.
I'm usually squared away with FOH by the first chorus. Then, the rest of the song to fine tune the foldback using hand signals.
Point to thing, point up or down. Done.
Easy peasy.

I bet it's been more than 15 years since any reasonable band needed more than 1 song to get ready for a show.

Makes me cringe to hear of 2 and 3 hour sound checks. Yikes !
Chris.

[Dave Garoutte]

Do you get an extra share of the take?  It seems you're doing two jobs, while the other members are doing one.  Plus it's your PA.  That's yet another share in my book.

[Mal Brown]

Bass player sound guy as well.  I have my folks pretty well trained after 5 years.  It took a band meeting way back there to explain that not paying a sound guy was a luxury for the band and if they wanted to maintain it, they needed to toe the line.  That includes assistance with the setup - we all lug gear, they place, I wire.  They maintain clean cables in their personal rigs and carry spares.  We are a quartet with 3 vocalists.  We sing a lot of tight 3 part stuff.  The volume has to be kept in line.

We don't do in ears, though I hope that may change.

I pretty much know what they want in their monitors and have scenes saved from every room we've played.

I did explain that running sound from stage is a complete pita and often it sucks the enjoyment right out of a gig.  I would be happy to go back to being a bass player singer any time...Their alternative to toeing the line is pay a sound guy.  On larger dates we hire one of my FOH guys to mix.  Feels like a vacation to me..

Also running a dl-1608 but with K-series.  If we bring in an FOH guy, we usually have one of my SI Expression boards.

[Robert Piascik]

Even though we have hundreds of gigs under our belts over the years, I seem to have constant challenges keeping the band in line when I'm line checking, sound checking and mixing. Despite attempts to explain to the guys what my process is, I often am met with "I can't hear myself" during line check. No shit, I don't have you in the monitors or mains yet. I often have trouble with the guys playing over top of each other when sound checking each instrument/vocalist. E.g., guitar player noodling when I'm mixing drums.

IMO this is the crux of the problem. Even though you are all adults with much experience your bandmates are behaving unprofessionally. Until you solve this problem you will continue to struggle. It's a people problem that no technical solution can fix. You must have a discussion (at a time when there are no instruments to distract them) about changing their behavior. I've seen experienced groups WITH EVERYONE ENGAGED who can do a soundcheck in about 5 minutes. If your people can't focus nothing will change.

Good luck!

[Fraser Moffatt]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Yes, the crux of the problem is a social/lack of professionalism one as opposed to a technical one. I've "alpha'd-up" on them more often than not - to the point of little generalissimo stuff.  I hate doing that. I've "laid down the law", I've attempted coaching the guys through the process, I've provided some good learning material (just watch the frickin' 5 minute youtube), yet nothing seems to make a difference that persists.

I started providing PA and doing sound for this outfit for a couple of reasons - I've blown my voice and hearing out by using a substandard PA with a loud band for too long with these guys. We were limited in our gigs with that POS PA.  I had the money to sink into this as well, plus the interest.

Admittedly, I take this all on myself. I own the gear, I transport and set it all up. I prefer that everyone stay out of my way while I'm doing that. I told the guys I don't want any compensation to do this. My choice. The often throw me 20% of the take for my services, but I don't expect it (and at this point, the gear has paid for itself). Perhaps me doing it this way reduces their sense of ownership and engagement in the process? I think that's part of it, but then there's the basic stagecraft stuff that seems to elude one or two of the guys at times. Frustrating.  I literally have to tell the guys to play the way they would at the peak of the set, not like they're sitting in their granny's living room singing lullabies. And then I'm the one who gets the looks when I push the faders up into feedback territory. Yargh!  The there's simple stuff like cable management on the stage. I hate the spiderweb of cables laying all over the place. Tuning the guitar without muting. Basic stuff. There's some interesting interpersonal dynamics as well. Guitar and drums are brothers and they argue and fight like brothers. Hard to get in between that dynamic.

I know that at this point I'll have a really hard time attempting to change anyone's behaviour - especially the guitar player -  so I have limited options. My leverage exists in the form of me withdrawing my services and/or my equipment. I really don't want to do this gig with anyone else's equipment at this point so I guess I'm left with withdrawing my services...or at least threatening to do so. At this point, I'd sacrifice a small share of the take for a decent sound guy.

BUT, I really don't think I should have to play that card. Even though it sounds like a shit-show, I can get the job done in one or two songs but it's usually high tension and a buzzkill for me since it's the small irritants and the unprofessional, but repetitive, behaviour that gets in the way.

I see a couple of different processes described here that I'll try. If these fail and I still need to say "Hey Guitarist, stop the noodling so I can soundcheck the drums. Your turn will come soon enough", I think I'll have to withdraw my services.

Man, reading this back makes me wonder why I'm doing this at all! Pretty decent musicians and singers, a great setlist and some very good gigs...that's why!

[Tim McCulloch]

These old dogs don't wanna learn no stinkin' new tricks.

But dogs can be trained... you just need to find the right structure and reward for each of the players.

[Scott Holtzman]

I had the money to sink into this as well, plus the interest.

If you had the money why would you have to pay interest :-)

[Jay Marr]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Yes, the crux of the problem is a social/lack of professionalism one as opposed to a technical one. I've "alpha'd-up" on them more often than not - to the point of little generalissimo stuff.  I hate doing that. I've "laid down the law", I've attempted coaching the guys through the process, I've provided some good learning material (just watch the frickin' 5 minute youtube), yet nothing seems to make a difference that persists.

I started providing PA and doing sound for this outfit for a couple of reasons - I've blown my voice and hearing out by using a substandard PA with a loud band for too long with these guys. We were limited in our gigs with that POS PA.  I had the money to sink into this as well, plus the interest.

Admittedly, I take this all on myself. I own the gear, I transport and set it all up. I prefer that everyone stay out of my way while I'm doing that. I told the guys I don't want any compensation to do this. My choice. The often throw me 20% of the take for my services, but I don't expect it (and at this point, the gear has paid for itself). Perhaps me doing it this way reduces their sense of ownership and engagement in the process? I think that's part of it, but then there's the basic stagecraft stuff that seems to elude one or two of the guys at times. Frustrating.  I literally have to tell the guys to play the way they would at the peak of the set, not like they're sitting in their granny's living room singing lullabies. And then I'm the one who gets the looks when I push the faders up into feedback territory. Yargh!  The there's simple stuff like cable management on the stage. I hate the spiderweb of cables laying all over the place. Tuning the guitar without muting. Basic stuff. There's some interesting interpersonal dynamics as well. Guitar and drums are brothers and they argue and fight like brothers. Hard to get in between that dynamic.

I know that at this point I'll have a really hard time attempting to change anyone's behaviour - especially the guitar player -  so I have limited options. My leverage exists in the form of me withdrawing my services and/or my equipment. I really don't want to do this gig with anyone else's equipment at this point so I guess I'm left with withdrawing my services...or at least threatening to do so. At this point, I'd sacrifice a small share of the take for a decent sound guy.

BUT, I really don't think I should have to play that card. Even though it sounds like a shit-show, I can get the job done in one or two songs but it's usually high tension and a buzzkill for me since it's the small irritants and the unprofessional, but repetitive, behaviour that gets in the way.

I see a couple of different processes described here that I'll try. If these fail and I still need to say "Hey Guitarist, stop the noodling so I can soundcheck the drums. Your turn will come soon enough", I think I'll have to withdraw my services.

Man, reading this back makes me wonder why I'm doing this at all! Pretty decent musicians and singers, a great setlist and some very good gigs...that's why!

I have the same gig in my band.  I'm lead vocal/guitar and sound guy.
I also provide the PA.

My guys do not f*ck around during sound check.  We have a system that I have outlined (by alpha-ing up).
1) Kick, Snare, Toms, Sampler, Full Kit
2) Bass
3) Guitars (just to match our volumes).
4) Vocals
5) 20 seconds of full band playing Hard To Handle (because it starts with drums, then guitar bass, then vocals).

We are done sound checking in less than 5 minutes (usually less than 3).

It helps that our mix is dialed in nicely on a X32 Rack (all guitars and bass are direct).

If my guys ever do f*ck around, they are met with a quick bit of me speaking to them in their monitor, usually comparing them to a sh*tty musician that we all know.
Something like - "hey, if I wanted (crappy local musician XX) in the band, I would have hired him". 
The other guys usually laugh (which embarrasses the person), and they stop.  Behavior change in motion.
Do they respect me for it, or hate me for it...?  Don't know, don't care.
I'm too old to deal with unprofessional players. (I'm 43 and a weekend warrior as well)

I'm a firm believer (especially with bands), people will push you as far as you will let them.  So I don't let them.

Not the same topic, but I've had gigs where someone gets WAY too drunk to perform and act professional.
When it has happened, I'll have a band meeting the next day and say: 
"I would never tell any of you how to live your life, or when you should or should not drink.  But I am saying...if you are looking to do that, then please find a new band.  This band does not operate that way.  It's a business, and none of you get drunk at your day job.  If you did, you wouldn't have one.  No hard feelings if this is not the right band for you."

My point is....Rules have to be set.  It may push some guys out the door when you lay down the law.  But after all of these early bumps in the road, my band is a well oiled machine, we have lots of fun, and we rarely have any conflict because everyone knows what is expected.

I suggest a band meeting to sit down and discuss, because talking about it at a gig is useless.
And at the meeting, take notes, and email them out to everyone the next day.

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