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Author Topic: dbx 131 eq any thoughts or suggestions  (Read 5824 times)

joseph baio

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dbx 131 eq any thoughts or suggestions
« on: September 18, 2017, 08:16:36 PM »

Hi and thanks again for all your help!
  I need an eq single channel x 31 band eq for each rack and am looking for one that is high quality is this dbx 131 ok or some used white 4400's  or other suggestion's?   thanks, joey
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David Sturzenbecher

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Re: dbx 131 eq any thoughts or suggestions
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2017, 08:51:16 PM »

Joesph,
Is there any reason why a good parametric wouldn't be a better fit? 31band EQs are really yesterday's news.


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Bob Leonard

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Re: dbx 131 eq any thoughts or suggestions
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2017, 08:52:34 PM »

dbx makes a great EQ. I also have a number of them sitting on a shelf, not used since I went digital. Send me a PM if interested.
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Bob Leonard

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Re: dbx 131 eq any thoughts or suggestions
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2017, 08:53:11 PM »

Joesph,
Is there any reason why a good parametric wouldn't be a better fit? 31band EQs are really yesterday's news.


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Why?
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Dave Pluke

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Re: dbx 131 eq any thoughts or suggestions
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2017, 08:54:55 PM »

Hi and thanks again for all your help!
  I need an eq single channel x 31 band eq for each rack and am looking for one that is high quality is this dbx 131 ok or some used white 4400's  or other suggestion's?   thanks, joey

The 4400 isn't a single space unit.  If you're absolutely painted into a 1u corner, there really aren't many (analog) options better than the dbx 131s.

For what are you using these eq's?  How high is "high quality"?

As for mono 1/3rd octave EQ's, Klark Teknik DN300's are nice, but they're 2u high.  The same applies for the dbx 2031 and the Ashly GQX3101.

Dave
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David Sturzenbecher

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Re: dbx 131 eq any thoughts or suggestions
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2017, 08:55:14 PM »

I haven't used a 31band EQ analog or digital in 5 years. 1/3 octave filters rarely fit my needs when commissioning or teching.


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Dennis Wiggins

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Re: dbx 131 eq any thoughts or suggestions
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2017, 09:10:26 PM »

Hi and thanks again for all your help!
  I need an eq single channel x 31 band eq for each rack and am looking for one that is high quality is this dbx 131 ok or some used white 4400's  or other suggestion's?   thanks, joey

I'll tell you what a 31-band EQ is good for.  Ear training.  Use it to learn about what happens when you adjust something.  You should actually hear a difference.  If you can't detect a difference with a change of ANY of the 31 bands, then your source material needs to change.  Manipulating pink noise and sine test tones (at low levels, of course) will train your ears to spot things that are 'out of whack'.  That is a technical term.

In the now world of available decent quality speakers in general, and decent quality powered speakers specifically, a 31-band EQ is really of no use. 

-Dennis
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 09:19:15 PM by Dennis Wiggins »
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: dbx 131 eq any thoughts or suggestions
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2017, 12:36:18 AM »

I'll tell you what a 31-band EQ is good for.  Ear training.  Use it to learn about what happens when you adjust something.  You should actually hear a difference.  If you can't detect a difference with a change of ANY of the 31 bands, then your source material needs to change.  Manipulating pink noise and sine test tones (at low levels, of course) will train your ears to spot things that are 'out of whack'.  That is a technical term.

In the now world of available decent quality speakers in general, and decent quality powered speakers specifically, a 31-band EQ is really of no use. 

-Dennis

Yeah that's why the Rivage has one per channel (choice of two graphics actually).  It's a tool like anything.  Some use it to draw smiley faces others to create sonic masterpieces.

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joseph baio

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Re: dbx 131 eq any thoughts or suggestions
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2017, 11:30:41 AM »

Yeah that's why the Rivage has one per channel (choice of two graphics actually).  It's a tool like anything.  Some use it to draw smiley faces others to create sonic masterpieces.
Thanks again for all your ideas! My main use for the eq would be to ring out each room I use the system in and only for cut. I have all speaker filters set in the crown amps to make the speakers flat it's just venues emphasize some frequencies so useing an RTA / FFT I'd like to flatten the room without going crazy using too much treatment hanging from lighting truss.
I would like to keep all units in signal chain the best quality I can get as I paid a lot of attention to the rest of the system including the source of actual vinyl barring any snake oil cables or correction processors.  Thanks joey
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joseph baio

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Re: dbx 131 eq any thoughts or suggestions
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2017, 02:21:11 PM »

Joesph,
Is there any reason why a good parametric wouldn't be a better fit? 31band EQs are really yesterday's news.


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David, I haven't seen an offering except for these fancy 3 or 4 band  but I am open to one with 6 or 7 bands with frequency ,Q , and level if available   Joey
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: dbx 131 eq any thoughts or suggestions
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2017, 02:33:24 PM »

David, I haven't seen an offering except for these fancy 3 or 4 band  but I am open to one with 6 or 7 bands with frequency ,Q , and level if available   Joey

How many channels and what kind of mixer are you inserting these into?

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: dbx 131 eq any thoughts or suggestions
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2017, 02:35:49 PM »

David, I haven't seen an offering except for these fancy 3 or 4 band  but I am open to one with 6 or 7 bands with frequency ,Q , and level if available   Joey

Common opnion has it that if you need more than 4 PEQ filters and a HPF, something is not right with the physical setup of the speakers or their DSP...if any.

If you're looking for a really nice PEQ with lots of filters, find a KT DN410:

2 channels of 5 filters each or flip a switch and get one channel with 10 filters.  It is 2rack spaces, though.

Another option for one rack space would be some FBX1100 type unit which gives 12 filters/channel but requires some practice to get speedy at using it as a manual unit.

PS

I have either/both on my shelves and am liquidating inventory in retirement. 
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John L Nobile

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Re: dbx 131 eq any thoughts or suggestions
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2017, 03:11:49 PM »

Common opnion has it that if you need more than 4 PEQ filters and a HPF, something is not right with the physical setup of the speakers or their DSP...if any.

If you're looking for a really nice PEQ with lots of filters, find a KT DN410:

I had 4 of those. Great units. I stopped using them when I got a digital board.

What are you using for a board? Smaller digital units are a lot cheaper than a single good EQ used to be.
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Don T. Williams

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Re: dbx 131 eq any thoughts or suggestions
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2017, 03:21:34 PM »

Joseph, one of the problems with most 1/3 octave graphic eq's is that they really aren't 1/3 octave!  Let me explain.  Yes the frequency band centers are 1/3 of an octave apart, but the filters are usually much wider than 1/3 of an octave.  They are usually an octave or so wide, sometimes more, sometimes less, and it varies from model to model.  The reason is that when you boost (yes I know you won't be boosting) a frequency band that is narrower than about an octave wide, it tends to sound bad to the human ear.  Maybe I should have said over-boost.  So the easy solution is to make 30 one-octave filters on 1/3 of an octave centers, and it sounds more "musical" to most users.

There are other choices for eq's.  I have had good luck with Behringer FBQ 1000's and FBQ2496's.  I don't use these in the automatic feedback detection mode, but I use them because they have 24 parametric filters adjustable in 1/60ths of an octave for center frequency.  The band width increments is from 1/60 to 2 octaves (again in 1/60ths of an octave).  I set and "lock" the filters.  I know some people won't use anything with the "B" in it, but this has been a reliable product, and usually the non professionals (church and school volunteer sound crew) can't and don't attempt to mess with them. Other manufacturers have products with these features also, so look around.  This type product could fit your requirements exactly.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: dbx 131 eq any thoughts or suggestions
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2017, 03:55:05 PM »

Common opnion has it that if you need more than 4 PEQ filters and a HPF, something is not right with the physical setup of the speakers or their DSP...if any.


Exactly.  Many people ruin a perfectly good loudspeaker system by "Whacking away" at it till there is nothing left.

If you are "ringing out" a room, once you get to 4 filters it is best to STOP!!!

Sure, you can just keep going, and keep lowering the headroom of the system, but it is not going to get any better sounding.

You will just dig a hole so big that you throw you and the PA system into it and cannot get out.
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John L Nobile

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Re: dbx 131 eq any thoughts or suggestions
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2017, 03:58:44 PM »

Exactly.  Many people ruin a perfectly good loudspeaker system by "Whacking away" at it till there is nothing left.

If you are "ringing out" a room, once you get to 4 filters it is best to STOP!!!

Sure, you can just keep going, and keep lowering the headroom of the system, but it is not going to get any better sounding.

You will just dig a hole so big that you throw you and the PA system into it and cannot get out.

I've always preferred 5 band PEQ's to 4. Always nice to have one or two spares when the gig starts.
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joseph baio

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Re: dbx 131 eq any thoughts or suggestions
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2017, 04:38:37 PM »

I've always preferred 5 band PEQ's to 4. Always nice to have one or two spares when the gig starts.
I agree having an extra filter or 2 is good. Rite now I don't have any processing between amps and mixer. 4 way mains with just 1 to 3 corrective peq each band. Each rack being a mono rack I would like a mono peq to stuff in there for room correction if any all maybe a boost of 100hz to pound the room hard when needed. I never really thought of using a peq vs graphic. I thank you all very much for the idea, its starting to grow on me the more I think. I have 4 extra spaces in my mains racks space isn't an issue. How about Rane pe-15 what is your ideas on that unit? I like Rane and still use their dj mixers in installs and have a few personal mp2016s in my collection.    joey
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Don T. Williams

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Re: dbx 131 eq any thoughts or suggestions
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2017, 06:28:41 PM »

Joseph, from my earlier comment, I did not want to imply that you need or or should use all 24 bands of PEQ (2 channels of 12 filters).  I am 100% in agreement with the other comments if they are referring to portable systems and channel EQ.  I have had permanent installations that have used more that 4 PEQ filter bands, but I don't think I have ever used more that 8 or 9 bands per channel.  In those rare cases I was using SMAART with most of the "extra" filters set between 1 to 3  1/60ths of an octave working on room mode/system interaction caused feedback frequencies.  Sometimes a filter or two is used broadly (but gently) to add a little high sparkle, bottom weight, or take some tubbiness out of the mids, but I have never "filled up" a processor.  You really can over-eq, and there are diminishing returns with each filter that's added.
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joseph baio

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Re: dbx 131 eq any thoughts or suggestions
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2017, 08:25:22 PM »

Joseph, from my earlier comment, I did not want to imply that you need or or should use all 24 bands of PEQ (2 channels of 12 filters).  I am 100% in agreement with the other comments if they are referring to portable systems and channel EQ.  I have had permanent installations that have used more that 4 PEQ filter bands, but I don't think I have ever used more that 8 or 9 bands per channel.  In those rare cases I was using SMAART with most of the "extra" filters set between 1 to 3  1/60ths of an octave working on room mode/system interaction caused feedback frequencies.  Sometimes a filter or two is used broadly (but gently) to add a little high sparkle, bottom weight, or take some tubbiness out of the mids, but I have never "filled up" a processor.  You really can over-eq, and there are diminishing returns with each filter that's added.
Don, I knew you didn't imply I should use all 24 filters as it makes common sense not to use what you don't need. Believe me when it comes to audio I try to make it work with as minimal interaction as possible . I want the creators who made the song be transmitted not my interpretation maybe just emphasize the bass a tad. In my experience when the building is shaking outside the patrons waiting online to enter seem to get into a fever pitch and more willing the price we charge to get inside.   joey
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brian maddox

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Re: dbx 131 eq any thoughts or suggestions
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2017, 12:31:16 AM »

Don, I knew you didn't imply I should use all 24 filters as it makes common sense not to use what you don't need. Believe me when it comes to audio I try to make it work with as minimal interaction as possible . I want the creators who made the song be transmitted not my interpretation maybe just emphasize the bass a tad. In my experience when the building is shaking outside the patrons waiting online to enter seem to get into a fever pitch and more willing the price we charge to get inside.   joey

Wut?
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: dbx 131 eq any thoughts or suggestions
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2017, 07:28:12 AM »

Don, I knew you didn't imply I should use all 24 filters as it makes common sense not to use what you don't need.
There is the exact problem.

Most people do not know what they don't need.  They think that "more is better".

I have actually heard people tell me (back in the day) that my graphics were wrong because I SHOULD adjust every filter to either a boost or a cut, that is the reason they are there-to be adjusted, and if it was set at "0", then that freq would nto be there.

Wellllll   OK then.

I amazes me what some people think.
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Don T. Williams

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Re: dbx 131 eq any thoughts or suggestions
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2017, 11:25:01 AM »

There is the exact problem.

Most people do not know what they don't need.  They think that "more is better".

I have actually heard people tell me (back in the day) that my graphics were wrong because I SHOULD adjust every filter to either a boost or a cut, that is the reason they are there-to be adjusted, and if it was set at "0", then that freq would nto be there.

Wellllll   OK then.

I amazes me what some people think.
When "inexpensive" (under $1,000.00) 1/3 octave LED display RTA's became available, I watched more than one band "engineer" constantly adjusting their 1/3 octave graphics to maintain a "flat" display for the entire performance.  These were all club bands, but as you can imagine the results were horrible.  I learned quickly to not say anything.  I have yet to see any music that reads flat on an RTA.  I'm not sure I want too.
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Re: dbx 131 eq any thoughts or suggestions
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2017, 11:25:01 AM »


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